freeheelwilly wrote:

Greg, I think I've provided you with "constructive" criticism before and rather than actually address it - you just say "that's not the way I do it. It's my forum" or words to that effect. as someone who has been a part of forums faaaar more successful than this one* but who would like to see this one succeed because WF is my home mountain - why won't you even consider a different approach here? I mean, why not? If it doesn't work you can always go back.

Thank you for the constructive criticism. If you recall I did back off. I then came back in here to create the Misc forum and everyone pisses and moans and gives me crap about it. And all of a sudden, this forum is "too corporate", Greg's a dick, balh blah blah. Again, the premise behind this place was always to run it like AZ. In some way, SkiADK and SkiMRV also represent AZ so I chose to run them similarly. I always ran that board with a goal to make anyone feel comfortable posting there. I don't think the cliquish inside jokes between the old RSN crew is conducive to that. As a compromise, I set up a Misc forum to catch all the off-topic banter and keep the resort forums focused on skiing at those resorts. You said yourself that you prefer the phpBB linear format as opposed to the outdated RSN threaded forums, but one benefit of a linear board is to have separate boards based on topics. It's not that hard to browse though the forums. Easier yet is to click the View posts since last visit link to see all new posts on one page. Instead some folks found this an opportunity to bash Greg again, the guy that set this up for you in the first place.

When I post, I post as if I was talking to someone face-to-face. If I disagree, I debate. But I don't try to belittle anybody. I don't put on some fake online persona like I'm some bad a**. All that is not me. You however think I'm a "tool" just because you don't agree with me, or the way I like to do things. Your preogative, I guess, but this attitude is lame, on- and offline. HPD and SOD say you're cool in person so I don't know why you feel like you have to come down on me online. I understand maybe part of it is just kidding around (or maybe not), but you always try to make it pretty personal. I'm not too eager to go and ski with someone like that and that's partly what forums like this are all about. I suspect you really don't care about that anyway though...

freeheelwilly wrote:

*(don't get your hackles up. it's true. go to telemarktips.com. Mitch Weber knows what he's doin'. Just go and browse around there. Informative articles, instructional videos, video interviews with industry leaders - and it's not just a resource for telemarkers. it centers on telemarkers and BC skiers but it's a great resource for skiers. And thousands of different people post from all over the World. The World, Greg.)

T-tips is great. I wish Mitch a lot of success. AZ is not a national or international forum. It's Northeast-only so of course it's going to be significantly smaller and less active. This one is even more focused regionally. AZ has been successful as far as I'm concerned. I've met some cool guys through it, many some really great skiers. I've said all this before; it's not for everybody. If anyone thinks they can do a better job, set up your own board. It's not that hard.

thanks greg but what you've just said is that you will not consider a different approach - won't even consider it. It's gonna be like AZ and that's it. Now a couple of the RSNers that were here as of yesterday swear they won't be back - and I tend to believe 'em. no skin off your back right? but here's the thing - because of their geographical location (they live very close to WF) and their occupations as well as their outgoing and helpful personalities you have lost a tremendous resource. believe me. They're a far bigger loss than if I disappeared. And they're gone - perhaps for good. That should bother you and I think a reflective person would wonder a little about that - how did that happen, etc. Let me take a crack at answering that question.

Whether true or not, some here see you as heavy handed and someone who just imposes his will because he can. It strikes these people as odd because YOU'VE NEVER EVEN SKIED AT WHITEFACE (or Gore, correct?). So here's some guy - sets up a forum for Whitefacers - but he's not a Whitefacer - and then imposes a lot of what seems to be arbitrary rules and posting guidelines (I'm talkin' now about moving posts around and deleting/locking threads you deem duplicative and all of that stuff. Your rules against foul language and flaming are reasonable). And you did it so suddenly - just out of the blue. Maybe if you didn't have the reputation among several of us (deserved or not) it wouldn't have been seen the way it was but you do have that rep, Greg, and you have to deal with the implications. Maybe you could have made us feel like we had some say in it or something - I mean we're the ones using the board afterall - not you. And then you get really defensive because people slam you and you feel unappreciated but, to a certain extent, you stir up the problems.

Now - the cliqueishness. that cuts both ways. We may know each other but we didn't always. We met each other on RSN - the King of the Clique boards. We don't cut anybody out of our childish antics though. Whatever. As T-lion said yesterday - as you build a community it may look cliqueish to the outside - how could it not at first blush? But a true "clique" is exclusive and elitist and that ain't us. You don't think the AZ community looks cliqueish to a newbie? You don't see any "inside jokes" over there? C'mon - be real!

Now, the fact that I just "wasted" 25 minutes tapping all of that tripe out should show you that at some level, Greg, I care about the success of your little project here - and that should count for something. Just sayin'.

(dang)

ps greg - nobody's posted on the main board in over 17 hours. How can that be good?

freeheelwilly wrote:

thanks greg but what you've just said is that you will not consider a different approach - won't even consider it. It's gonna be like AZ and that's it. Now a couple of the RSNers that were here as of yesterday swear they won't be back - and I tend to believe 'em. no skin off your back right? but here's the thing - because of their geographical location (they live very close to WF) and their occupations as well as their outgoing and helpful personalities you have lost a tremendous resource. believe me. They're a far bigger loss than if I disappeared. And they're gone - perhaps for good. That should bother you and I think a reflective person would wonder a little about that - how did that happen, etc. Let me take a crack at answering that question. Whether true or not, some here see you as heavy handed and someone who just imposes his will because he can. It strikes these people as odd because YOU'VE NEVER EVEN SKIED AT WHITEFACE (or Gore, correct?). So here's some guy - sets up a forum for Whitefacers - but he's not a Whitefacer - and then imposes a lot of what seems to be arbitrary rules and posting guidelines (I'm talkin' now about moving posts around and deleting/locking threads you deem duplicative and all of that stuff. Your rules against foul language and flaming are reasonable). And you did it so suddenly - just out of the blue. Maybe if you didn't have the reputation among several of us (deserved or not) it wouldn't have been seen the way it was but you do have that rep, Greg, and you have to deal with the implications. Maybe you could have made us feel like we had some say in it or something - I mean we're the ones using the board afterall - not you. And then you get really defensive because people slam you and you feel unappreciated but, to a certain extent, you stir up the problems. Now - the cliqueishness. that cuts both ways. We may know each other but we didn't always. We met each other on RSN - the King of the Clique boards. We don't cut anybody out of our childish antics though. Whatever. As T-lion said yesterday - as you build a community it may look cliqueish to the outside - how could it not at first blush? But a true "clique" is exclusive and elitist and that ain't us. You don't think the AZ community looks cliqueish to a newbie? You don't see any "inside jokes" over there? C'mon - be real! Now, the fact that I just "wasted" 25 minutes tapping all of that tripe out should show you that at some level, Greg, I care about the success of your little project here - and that should count for something. Just sayin'. (dang)

I appreciate all that and I see your points. I would have appreciated something like this from the outset of this forum in the form of a PM or Email, or even a phone call. I'm a helluva lot more receptive to something like this than a "Greg is a tool" post. And you're right - I should set up something that the majority here wants. I did back off and gave you guys some breathing room and only came back in here to create the Misc forum that HPD agreed was a good idea. In fact, I found a PM from back in March where he actually requested it. Still, Greg gets the brunt of the "feedback". That puts me on the defensive and you can bet it sure makes me feel unappreciated. Like you mention, I'm not an ADK skier so why should I have to take that? If I pulled the plug here, it really wouldn't affect me much. I keep at it because I feel it could be a useful tool for you guys and it's no secret that AZ, SkiMRV and SkiADK benefit in cross-linking. But sometimes I question how much is that really worth?

So, where to go from here? How about I do let you guys shape the future of this forum? I'm still a bit baffled as to what the concerns are in terms of Misc and post-locking, etc. Let's continue to use this thread to post comments on what folks do and do not like here. I will then try to distill each point down into simple actions I can take in order for this place to evolve into something you want to see. I will do that by creating a poll for each item and let the community decide on how to proceed. That's the only diplomatic way. Some topics could be Do we need a Miscellaneous forum? Should the word censor be enabled? etc.Thoughts?

Thanks for your thoughful reply, FHW. I do appreciate it, honestly.

I posted in the last 17hours.
My clock is wrong.