New Glades

[highpeaksdrifter]

When you look at the proposed terrain on the trail map the new glades are skiers left of the intermediate trail. When you go into the glades it appears that you have to come back out on the same intermediate trail you entered from. Is that right?

[Phineas]

thats right, 4sure, right on bro, yep per.

[jackstraw]

nope, no way, notta, un uaa.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

When you look at the proposed terrain on the trail map the new glades are skiers left of the intermediate trail. When you go into the glades it appears that you have to come back out on the same intermediate trail you entered from. Is that right?


Yes, that's the way I read it.

I've never hiked through the area, so I can't be sure, but it seems to me from the topo that each glade run will be pretty limited in vertical and quite short before one has to traverse a long way back to the right to re-join the intermediate trail. If that's the case, I'm not confident that the glades will be all that.

It doesn't seem to me that WF totally "gets it" with glades. They shouldn't just be fit between existing trails on the mountain (or made to adapt to a proposed "cruiser" trail). The best glades I've skied follow the fall line like a real trail, but instead of a clear cut, the trees (not just branches and underbrush) are selectively thinned.

We'll see what happens with Lookout Mt. I don't want to be a Negative Nancy with this. I'm still really psyched to ski the new terrain and picnic at the Porcupine.

[highpeaksdrifter]

When you look at the proposed terrain on the trail map the new glades are skiers left of the intermediate trail. When you go into the glades it appears that you have to come back out on the same intermediate trail you entered from. Is that right?


one has to traverse a long way back to the right to re-join the intermediate trail. .

That's what I was thinking. Maybe it just looks that way on the trail map and the reality will be different.

[tjf67]

but it seems to me from the topo that each glade run will be pretty limited in vertical and quite short before one has to traverse a long way back to the right to re-join the intermediate trail

Who are you? the same type post every string. Have you skied the face this year? did you look up at what they are glading?

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Who are you? the same type post every string. Have you skied the face this year? did you look up at what they are glading?

Relax, guy, didn't mean to offend you! The Little Whiteface glades are OK, I'm just of the opinion that they could have been better, and the proposed glades don't seem to be a step in the right direction.

But, seeing as Whiteface hasn't started cutting trails yet on Lookout Mountain, the Lookout Mountain glades aren't visible from any of the current terrain and WF didn't cut any new glades on Little Whiteface for the 06/07 season, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[tjf67]

Who are you? the same type post every string. Have you skied the face this year? did you look up at what they are glading?

Relax, guy, didn't mean to offend you! The Little Whiteface glades are OK, I'm just of the opinion that they could have been better, and the proposed glades don't seem to be a step in the right direction.

But, seeing as Whiteface hasn't started cutting trails yet on Lookout Mountain, the Lookout Mountain glades aren't visible from any of the current terrain and WF didn't cut any new glades on Little Whiteface for the 06/07 season, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You did not affend me your posts just annoy me. Have you looked a t the map and then look up at the hill where they are going to cut. That is waht I am referring to.

[highpeaksdrifter]

Who are you? the same type post every string. Have you skied the face this year? did you look up at what they are glading?

Relax, guy, didn't mean to offend you! The Little Whiteface glades are OK, I'm just of the opinion that they could have been better, and the proposed glades don't seem to be a step in the right direction.

But, seeing as Whiteface hasn't started cutting trails yet on Lookout Mountain, the Lookout Mountain glades aren't visible from any of the current terrain and WF didn't cut any new glades on Little Whiteface for the 06/07 season, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You did not affend me your posts just annoy me. Have you looked a t the map and then look up at the hill where they are going to cut. That is waht I am referring to.

That's where I get confused. It's my understanding the blue trail is going to run across the ridge. On the map it looks like the glades drop off skier's left side of the ridge. So where can you stand at WF and see where the glades will be? I'm trying to invision it but can't.

[tjf67]

Who are you? the same type post every string. Have you skied the face this year? did you look up at what they are glading?

Relax, guy, didn't mean to offend you! The Little Whiteface glades are OK, I'm just of the opinion that they could have been better, and the proposed glades don't seem to be a step in the right direction.

But, seeing as Whiteface hasn't started cutting trails yet on Lookout Mountain, the Lookout Mountain glades aren't visible from any of the current terrain and WF didn't cut any new glades on Little Whiteface for the 06/07 season, I'm not sure what you're talking about.

You did not affend me your posts just annoy me. Have you looked a t the map and then look up at the hill where they are going to cut. That is waht I am referring to.


I dont feel like going back and looking at the maps to point you in the right direction. When you go up lift six. Look over to the right where the expansion is going to be. That pitch that you are looking at is going to be glades. I forget the amount in acres of gladin(78?) but it is a lot.
That's where I get confused. It's my understanding the blue trail is going to run across the ridge. On the map it looks like the glades drop off skier's left side of the ridge. So where can you stand at WF and see where the glades will be? I'm trying to invision it but can't.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

That's where I get confused. It's my understanding the blue trail is going to run across the ridge. On the map it looks like the glades drop off skier's left side of the ridge. So where can you stand at WF and see where the glades will be? I'm trying to invision it but can't.


This is what I tried to explain in one of my earlier "annoying" posts. You can see the terrain from across the valley/Wilmington (with binoculars), but there is no way to see the proposed gladed terrain from any current Whiteface trail. The way I understand it, the lift will go up one ridge where the two expert trails will be. To the right of this ridge is a bowl that the intermediate trail will skirt before dropping over the side of the NEXT ridge. It is this next ridge where we will find the glades.

Now, to clarify some of my previous posts, since some people (tjf67) aren't bothering to look up the topo map, I've roughly sketched the intermediate trail and glades below. The gladed terrain is represented by the "I"s and the intermediate trail is represented by the "/"s (no, I'm not an artist). If you want to ski the longest stretch of vert in the glades, you're going to have a long traverse back at the bottom of the glades to get back to the intermediate trail and the rest of the mountain. If you want less of an annoying traverse, you'll have less vertical in the glades to ski. Alternatively, I guess you could ski the double fall line along the intermediate trail. To me, this isn't an ideal layout. But, it appears that some others like it (I'm talking about you, tjf67). If I'm wrong about this, I'd be the first to admit it and be happy about it.

............/I
......../IIII
..../ IIIIII
/IIIIIIIIII

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

[quote="tjf67I dont feel like going back and looking at the maps to point you in the right direction. When you go up lift six. Look over to the right where the expansion is going to be. That pitch that you are looking at is going to be glades. I forget the amount in acres of gladin(78?) but it is a lot.
[/quote]


You're 100% wrong. That pitch is where the lift line and two expert trails will be. The glades (52 acres, not 78) will be on the backside of the next ridge.

[tjf67]

[quote="tjf67I dont feel like going back and looking at the maps to point you in the right direction. When you go up lift six. Look over to the right where the expansion is going to be. That pitch that you are looking at is going to be glades. I forget the amount in acres of gladin(78?) but it is a lot.



You're 100% wrong. That pitch is where the lift line and two expert trails will be. The glades (52 acres, not 78) will be on the backside of the next ridge.[/quote]

I went to the UMP and you are correct and I am wrong. You are still annoying.

[tjf67]

[quote="tjf67I dont feel like going back and looking at the maps to point you in the right direction. When you go up lift six. Look over to the right where the expansion is going to be. That pitch that you are looking at is going to be glades. I forget the amount in acres of gladin(78?) but it is a lot.



You're 100% wrong. That pitch is where the lift line and two expert trails will be. The glades (52 acres, not 78) will be on the backside of the next ridge.

I went to the UMP and you are correct and I am wrong. You are still annoying.[/quote]

With 52 acres of glading how can you say it will be short. Whiteface currently has 225 acres. I just dont get your logic. It looks like a lot of skiing to me

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I went to the UMP and you are correct and I am wrong. You are still annoying.

Thanks, tjf67. Good to see you mastering the information superhighway. Not to gloat or anything, but nothing's more annoying than people who talk out of their a** with authority.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

With 52 acres of glading how can you say it will be short. Whiteface currently has 225 acres. I just dont get your logic. It looks like a lot of skiing to me

Look at the trail design and my (very, very bad) approximation of it a couple posts back. The glade seems to be very wide but not very long. I'm in no way saying it's going to suck. To the contrary, I'm very psyched to ski it. But, imagine how kick-a** a glade we'd have if they cut one down the ridge where the two expert trails will be. One long glade that would ski like the glades at Steamboat. That'd be really awesome.

Anyway, sorry for the negative tone. I looked back at some of the posts and saw how some might seem to be a little pissy.

[takeahike46er]

You can see the terrain from across the valley/Wilmington (with binoculars), but there is no way to see the proposed gladed terrain from any current Whiteface trail.

While it is not quite the same as viewing up close, the picture below shows the forest composition of the entire mountain. Note the hardwood forest extending up from easy acres. The glades are to be situated in the uppermost part of this forest, directly east of the tollroad and the slides.

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album31/wfsat.jpg



At least from this perspective I can understand why they decided to situate the glade there. It looks wide open compared to the rest of the tree-choked mountain. With the glades taking up the area that they do, there will be a ton of lines to ski, even if they are short on vert.

[AdironRider]

This thread is a perfect example of how this board cant seem to handle any form of Whiteface criticism. Glades will be nice, but they will also lack continuous vertical. This is a legitimate concern. Lets not forget that criticism often makes products better......

[Phineas]

This thread is a perfect example of how this board cant seem to handle any form of Whiteface criticism. Glades will be nice, but they will also lack continuous vertical. This is a legitimate concern. Lets not forget that criticism often makes products better......

this response is an example of spoutting off w/ very little specfic knowledge on the subject at hand! I betcha there is five times more vert than U can handle in them new glades little ronnyrider... :twisted:

As far as glades inbetween the expert trails - they face easternly in2 the sun and would melt - the planned glades face northernly and continously drop in vert just like the intermediate trail! rippin aganist the fallline is gonna offer alot of funky session opportunities.

I'm calling ronnyrider out for a ski off!! Step up or shut up!!!!! :oops:

[AdironRider]

Its on bud. 08-09 when Im back in the ADK and the expansion is up, well do laps all day. First one I lead you follow, vice versa, and so on till somene cant hack it, pussies out, or by judges ruling is deemed unworthy. All terrain is open for one to challenge the other. To the winner goes free beers and pride.

I do agree with you that if the glades are on the other side of the ridge they will melt out very quickly. That ridge basks in the sun all day long. I personally wish they would open up the woods between Parons and Cloud, but alas some bird will prevent that from happening ;)

[tjf67]

Its on bud. 08-09 when Im back in the ADK and the expansion is up, well do laps all day. First one I lead you follow, vice versa, and so on till somene cant hack it, pussies out, or by judges ruling is deemed unworthy. All terrain is open for one to challenge the other. To the winner goes free beers and pride.

I do agree with you that if the glades are on the other side of the ridge they will melt out very quickly. That ridge basks in the sun all day long. I personally wish they would open up the woods between Parons and Cloud, but alas some bird will prevent that from happening ;)

looser has to loick the other ones balls. HOMOS

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

You can see the terrain from across the valley/Wilmington (with binoculars), but there is no way to see the proposed gladed terrain from any current Whiteface trail.

While it is not quite the same as viewing up close, the picture below shows the forest composition of the entire mountain. Note the hardwood forest extending up from easy acres. The glades are to be situated in the uppermost part of this forest, directly east of the tollroad and the slides.

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album31/wfsat.jpg



At least from this perspective I can understand why they decided to situate the glade there. It looks wide open compared to the rest of the tree-choked mountain. With the glades taking up the area that they do, there will be a ton of lines to ski, even if they are short on vert.



Great post. That picture really clears things up. Hardwood glades are the best, so I'm extra-psyched now.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Its on bud. 08-09 when Im back in the ADK and the expansion is up, well do laps all day. First one I lead you follow, vice versa, and so on till somene cant hack it, pussies out, or by judges ruling is deemed unworthy. All terrain is open for one to challenge the other. To the winner goes free beers and pride.

I do agree with you that if the glades are on the other side of the ridge they will melt out very quickly. That ridge basks in the sun all day long. I personally wish they would open up the woods between Parons and Cloud, but alas some bird will prevent that from happening ;)

looser has to loick the other ones balls. HOMOS


For all those that complain that "big brother" edits too many posts, note that this one has been on the board for over three days now....

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

As far as glades inbetween the expert trails - they face easternly in2 the sun and would melt - the planned glades face northernly and continously drop in vert just like the intermediate trail! rippin aganist the fallline is gonna offer alot of funky session opportunities.


Didn't think of that. Good point. I think you're right that natural snow trails are a no-go on that slope. Wonder how the expert trails will handle baking in the sun.

[Phineas]

Didn't think of that. Good point. I think you're right that natural snow trails are a no-go on that slope. Wonder how the expert trails will handle baking in the sun.

The higher elevation and width of those trails will help somewhat as will the fact WF has 250 new guns purchased and ready for installation! Bury 'em early and often in ADK manAmade!

[Tsavolion]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

[tjf67]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

Thats a lot of woods to ski in. But oh my gosh there is going to be a double fall line. Somone will have to teach me how to ski that. And if they did this and that is could have been much better. I applaud all the people that have got the project this far. LETS GETTER DONE

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)



Pretty awesome image, thanks. Really clears things up, and I'm psyched to see how much snow that section of the mountain gets and how open the trees are.

I don't think this changes your basic point (that there will be a lot of gladed terrain), but, when looking at Figure F-2 of the Unit Master Plan (link below), it looks like the gladed terrain only extends to a bit below your label of "Glade Area."

http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/wf_ump.pdf

[Phineas]

Pretty awesome image, thanks. Really clears things up, and I'm psyched to see how much snow that section of the mountain gets and how open the trees are.

I don't think this changes your basic point (that there will be a lot of gladed terrain), but, when looking at Figure F-2 of the Unit Master Plan (link below), it looks like the gladed terrain only extends to a bit below your label of "Glade Area."

http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/wf_ump.pdf

ORDA lowered the elevation where the glades start to avoid thrush habaitat and it works better for glades as well.

[NPN]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

I thought it was supposed to be four expert trails, and one intermediate; am I missing something here?

[highpeaksdrifter]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

I thought it was supposed to be four expert trails, and one intermediate; am I missing something here?

Cool pic.

They'll probably count where the int. trail forks off as the 3rd expert tail.

[jackstraw]

This thread is a perfect example of how this board cant seem to handle any form of Whiteface criticism. Glades will be nice, but they will also lack continuous vertical. This is a legitimate concern. Lets not forget that criticism often makes products better......

this response is an example of spoutting off w/ very little specfic knowledge on the subject at hand! I betcha there is five times more vert than U can handle in them new glades little ronnyrider... :twisted:

As far as glades inbetween the expert trails - they face easternly in2 the sun and would melt - the planned glades face northernly and continously drop in vert just like the intermediate trail! rippin aganist the fallline is gonna offer alot of funky session opportunities.

I'm calling ronnyrider out for a ski off!! Step up or shut up!!!!! :oops:

maybe youz sally's should come to cannon and ski kinsmans...a real glade w/ real vert...bwahahahhahahaha!!!!!!!

[sleestak]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

I thought it was supposed to be four expert trails, and one intermediate; am I missing something here?

youre missing something alright

[NPN]

I think this picture is a better indication of how much vert, acreage are contained in the new gladed sections. i expect a full retraction from ronnyrider.

http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/mapped.jpg (http://upload8.postimage.org/340815/photo_hosting.html)

I thought it was supposed to be four expert trails, and one intermediate; am I missing something here?

youre missing something alright

S, I don't know you at all, so I won't even bother to speculate on why you'd make that comment, but feel free to elaborate whenever you like.

Much more importantly to me is why there are so few new trails proposed for that amount of terrain. Is this part of the 25 mile thing, or is it lack of funding, or Bicky bird traumas, or, or, or? Anyone have any answers on this?

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Much more importantly to me is why there are so few new trails proposed for that amount of terrain. Is this part of the 25 mile thing, or is it lack of funding, or Bicky bird traumas, or, or, or? Anyone have any answers on this?


There are probably people here who know more definitively than I do, but it seems like the original 2004 proposal with several more trails on the face with the new lift was scrapped in favor of the current design primarily because of the bird habitat. At this point, no additional terrain can be cut due to the 25-mile limit without either re-vegetating some trails or amending the NYS constitution. I hope something can be done, because it seems like there is a lot of room for more eco-friendly ski terrain.

Personally, I think it's pretty great that management has worked so hard to create a balance between development and environmental protection. They should be applauded, and I hope WF publicizes its eco-friendliness. Vermonters shouldn't get all the kudos.

[highpeaksdrifter]

Personally, I think it's pretty great that management has worked so hard to create a balance between development and environmental protection. They should be applauded, and I hope WF publicizes its eco-friendliness. Vermonters shouldn't get all the kudos.

LA QUINTA, CALIF. - Whiteface Mountain, along with Vail, Colo. and
Whistler/Blackcomb, British Columbia, Canada, was a finalist in the yearly
Silver Eagle Awards given by the National Ski Areas Association at its
annual convention.

This year's event, held at the La Quinta Resort and Club in La Quinta,
Calif., saw Whistler get the nod over Whiteface and Vail in the category of
Fish and Wildlife Protection. Previously, Whiteface had received a 2002
Silver Eagle Award in recognition of environmental excellence in the same
category for installation of a weir to monitor water levels in the Ausable
River.

According to an NSAA press release, 2007 Silver Eagle awards went to
ski resorts in California, Colorado, Oregon, and Canada for environmental
accomplishments in areas such as clean energy and habitat protection. These
honors were announced on May 7.

Whiteface presented its detailed mitigation efforts pertaining to the
impact of the new Lookout Mountain project on the bird species known as
Bicknell's Thrush. The Whiteface effort stated it "is in the process of
expanding its trail system to include a new network called the "Lookout
Mountain" project. This expansion will involve trail and lift construction
in an area of sub-alpine forest preserve located above 2,800 feet. Special
care has been taken to ensure that the native species (Bicknell's Thrush)
are not adversely affected. The Olympic Regional Development Authority
(ORDA) has teamed with the Adirondack Park Agency, Institute of Natural
Sciences, Wildlife Conservation Society, The Adirondack Council, Audubon New
York, Cornell Lab of Ornithology and the Adirondack Nature Conservancy to
study the potential impacts of the project on the Bicknell's Thrush. The
Bicknell's Thrush is an extremely reclusive bird about which very little is
known."

The Whiteface submission continued to say that tens of thousands of
dollars have been dedicated to research the habits of this species. ORDA and
its partners will establish an international conservation fund in order to
preserve the bird's wintering grounds high in the hills of the islands of
Hispaniola. Additionally, the Whiteface Unit Management Plan, wherein the
Lookout Mountain build-out is contained, moved trails further east "to avoid
naturally occurring Bicknell's Thrush habitat."

"To ensure the long-term viability of Bicknell's and other birds in the
sub-alpine forest, Whiteface went to great lengths to study bird populations
in and around the new proposed terrain," the presentation stated. "As a
result of these studies, Whiteface has adopted an aggressive conservation
policy when it comes to suitable habitat for these birds."

To create an educational legacy, ORDA has displayed a large Bicknell's
Thrush exhibit at numerous

locations at the ski center and Whiteface Veterans Memorial Highway. This
informational piece summarizes

the nesting and foresting habits of the species and shows the 2,800 foot
threshold within the context of an

enhanced Whiteface photo.

"I'm very proud to say that Whiteface was able to advance our entry to
the group of finalists at the convention," said mountain manager Jay Rand.
"As much as we have championed the cause of the Bicknell's Thrush, our staff
did an excellent job portraying that effort to the NSAA panel. This also
enabled us to educate those in attendance who may have had little or no
experience with Bicknell's Thrush."

Each summer, the Bicknell's Thrush returns to mountains in the
northeastern United States to breed, so any disturbance must be studied
closely for the long-term survival of the species.

ORDA, the Department of Environmental Conservation and other
environmental and regulatory agencies continue as active partners in the
mission of the long-term continuation of the species.

"The NSAA award has come and gone, but this does not mean our goal to
enhance the habitat of the Bicknell's Thrush has changed," continued Rand.
"We will start breaking ground on Lookout Mountain this summer with a
two-year timetable for completion. In that process, our commitment to this
initiative will not change."

[AdironRider]

No full retraction here, but the image makes it look much better than what I was imagining in my mind. Double fall line should be fun to play with. Does anyone else hope they dont open up the glades to much? I like really tight trees. No more open than High Country at least.