Can someone please explain to me........

[SKIdds]

Why, on earth, Whiteface would mow down and groom out a perfectly good, World Cup-class mogul field that probably took quite a bit of effort to create? Whiteface always (at least when there is enough snow) creates the World Cup mogul course on one half of lower Wilderness in early January. While I can see that weather and conditions could have some effect on the season long quality of the mogul field, I arrived at the mounain Friday expecting it to be there. However, all of Wilderness was groomed as smooth as a baby's bottom. And I have to ask why? For starters, IMHO, Whiteface grooms too many trails out too often, resulting in a severe lack of moguls for those who want the challenge/fun. But especially since that is the case, you'd expect them to leave such a mogul field in place as one of the few places a bump skier could find some fun. But they don't, and I really wonder why?

Someone on the gondi said for liability reasons, to which I say pish! That's horse-hockey. If anything, skiing a man-made mogul field that has multiple perfect lines is way easier than skiing something like Mackenzie, where nature and skiers conspire to create a much harder to ski trail of somewhat erratic wall to wall moguls where a perfect line is often hard to find, and getting thrown off whatever line you do pick is a much greater possiblity possibility than on a manufactured mogul field.

Maybe there is a reason for having gotten rid of the mogul field, but if there is I'd like to know it.

[wondertrev]

Hmmm,

I'm just guessing, but I suspect it might have done in the name of tourism. You don't want Vinnie from Jersey driving up in his Escalade complaining that 1% of the mountain was unskiable during his once a year trip with Angie and the kids.

[skimore]

Hmmm,

I'm just guessing, but I suspect it might have done in the name of tourism. You don't want Vinnie from Jersey driving up in his Escalade complaining that 1% of the mountain was unskiable during his once a year trip with Angie and the kids.

if that is the reason......thats ridiculous

[NPN]

Why, on earth, Whiteface would mow down and groom out a perfectly good, World Cup-class mogul field that probably took quite a bit of effort to create? Whiteface always (at least when there is enough snow) creates the World Cup mogul course on one half of lower Wilderness in early January. While I can see that weather and conditions could have some effect on the season long quality of the mogul field, I arrived at the mounain Friday expecting it to be there. However, all of Wilderness was groomed as smooth as a baby's bottom. And I have to ask why? For starters, IMHO, Whiteface grooms too many trails out too often, resulting in a severe lack of moguls for those who want the challenge/fun. But especially since that is the case, you'd expect them to leave such a mogul field in place as one of the few places a bump skier could find some fun. But they don't, and I really wonder why?

Someone on the gondi said for liability reasons, to which I say pish! That's horse-hockey. If anything, skiing a man-made mogul field that has multiple perfect lines is way easier than skiing something like Mackenzie, where nature and skiers conspire to create a much harder to ski trail of somewhat erratic wall to wall moguls where a perfect line is often hard to find, and getting thrown off whatever line you do pick is a much greater possiblity possibility than on a manufactured mogul field.

Maybe there is a reason for having gotten rid of the mogul field, but if there is I'd like to know it.

You can't leave a World Cup designed mogul run up for the general public to play on.

Liability alone is enough reason, but common sense for any one who has ever had the treat to watch a World Cup event on Wilderness should be ample response to explain why it isn't there for the average Joe/Jill to play on.

Try Lower Mac.

[takeahike46er]

Liability and the desire to appeal to the tourists are probably all factors. Holiday weekends are largely comprised of intermediates and beginners. Grooming the diamond runs expands the skiable terrain for those intermediate skiers, and keeps complaints and injuries to a minimum.

I wish there were more bumps on the the mountain. On paper, the percentage of ungroomed/bump runs at Whiteface isn't too bad. Realistically, Whiteface has somewhere around 35 trails if you count them the old-fashioned way before the days of Upper, Lowers, and named connectors. (This trail map (http://teachski.com/brochures/wfny/whiteface.htm) from '87/'88 has 29 trails and it contains most of the core trails we know today.) Let's say that Empire, Mackenzie, Wilderness and Cloudspin have bumps. Assuming all of those "35" trails are open, approximately 11% have bumps. Include Blazer's and the glades (I count as 2-- ignoring the intermediate glades and combining Cloudspitter/10th mountain) and then approximately 20% of the trails are ungroomed. Not bad.

In reality, those trails are rarely all open at the same time and they rarely all have bumps. The result is that it can feel like there is so little to choose from even though, as a percentage of open trails, it may seem reasonable.

[SKIdds]

You can't leave a World Cup designed mogul run up for the general public to play on.
Why? Liability is no viable reason for someplace that claims to be a big mountain.


.......but common sense for any one who has ever had the treat to watch a World Cup event on Wilderness should be ample response to explain why it isn't there for the average Joe/Jill to play on.
Huh?

I've had the treat. No offense intended, but I disagree and that is perhaps one of the most rediculous things I've ever heard. Take the jumps off and it's actually a rather easy mogul field to ski. Not like World Cup competitors do it, but it isn't hard to ski. Yes, it is amazing what World Cup mogul skiers can do. They rip a zipper line down whole course in under a minute, while throwing inverted airs along the way. It is a sight to behold and we have been there and wached the last three years they held the competition. But the moguls themselves? For starters, they aren't all that big. Spend a day at MRG if you want to see real bumps. Secondly, a manmade course like that has perfect lines to ski. That is half the battle. To think for a second that the field they set is somehow beyond many of the skiers who call Whiteface their main mountain is an insult to an awful lot of skiers.

That said, your argument doesn't hold water. We were there over MLK weekend this year. On Tuesday they dropped the rope and you could ski the course, so obviously it IS something the average Joe/Jill can and have played on. We've skied it other years, too. I'm not sure when they plowed the course under. Maybe it was recently and management was affraid to have the masses ski it over the President's Day holiday weekend. But that would really be just lame.

Try Lower Mac.
Lower Mac is fun, but it really is one of only two true bump options on the mountain (yes, parts of Skyward and Cloudspin had some bumps, as well as the glades....but that is limited), but if you were to rate bump trails in the northeast on a scale of 1 to 10, with MRG, the Castlerock chair at Sugarbush, and the Front Four at Stowe being a 9 or 10, lower Mac is a 4 at best. Empire is a much better trail and I'd put that at a 7 on the bump scale. But if those two are the best a big mountain like Whiteface can put forward for mogul trails that is disappointing. Whiteface is a great mountain and has a lot to offer, but it is lacking in the bump category, and it shouldn't be.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

i don't understand the posts claiming WF is worred about liability.

the mountain has bumped up glades and a half-pipe....wilderness is an EXPERT trail. and half of it was groomed anyway.

the only excuse i can think of is that the bumps weren't in good shape. maybe the back ends of the bumps were hacked off and iced over? if that was the case, probably most people couldn't have skied them anyways.

[snowman]

I think one could argue that Wilderness is a liability without bumps. At least the bumps slow you down. I guess it might be a good idea just to have the extra groomed terrain to help spread the people around. I love the bumps, but hardly ski them on Wilderness. There were people on Lower Mac, but it was hardly crowded. Probably just giving the majority what they want. I am always disappointed with Essex and Northway groomed. And wasn't an ungroomed Skyward fun earlier this year.

I am sure the bumps will be back.

[wondertrev]

I'm not a big bumper (in fact, I really stink) but I'm surprised at the lack of moguls compared to other 'big name' resorts in both the East and West. If WF really wants to emphasize the fat that it's not a beginner mountain, why not leave a few runs for the serious bump crowd? I may be lucky just to get down Alta's High Rustler or Taos' Al's Run in one piece, but it's always fun to watch the truly skilled.

[asland]

I'm surprised that they mowed the wc bumps down. It seems like lake placid and whiteface have a huge draw with the Olympic and world cup name. For some people being able to ski the bumps that the world cup competition was held on would be a huge draw. Not to mention that when they found out how hard it was it would give them an even better respect for the sport.

asland

[takeahike46er]

I hope that management is taking note of the sentiments expressed in this thread. It seems that most agree that there should be more quality bumps (seeded or not), especially for a mountain of Whiteface's caliber. The solution of course is for the new expert run (Hoyt's High?) to be a dedicated bump run when it opens next year. :D :wink:

[Adirondackskier]

Checked in with Whiteface and here is the skinny.

Wilderness was absolutely hammered with snowmaking..........when you make snow it fills in the mogul field. Whiteface cannot build a WC Mogul field when there is not a World Cup.

Currently there are 3 trails that are consistantley allowed to be bumped up Mac, Lower Skyward and upper Cloud. After Monday's weather, the bumps are definitely not ideal . look for these trails to be groomed out in the upcoming days.

Once a significant snowfall hits these trails will be allowed to be bumped up again.

Last weekend essex was left ungroomed same with upper northway....

[frashdog]

Why, on earth, Whiteface would mow down and groom out a perfectly good, World Cup-class mogul field that probably took quite a bit of effort to create?

Cause bumps suck they are so 80's, right behind mono boards, rear entry boots and ski ballet. :lol: joke

I agree they should have a dedicated bump run, for all the nostalgic paralell skiers with "boots stuck together riding the tails the whole way down ". :lol: sporting their one piece dayglow suits.

I do love soft spring bumps!

Yea, I got first run down wilderness after they groomed it. Sorry that was my pick of the day.

I remember back in the early 90's when they would leave trail wide bands of big bumps between groomed sections all the way down mountain run. Sure slowed down the straight liners.

[SKIdds]

Checked in with Whiteface and here is the skinny.

Wilderness was absolutely hammered with snowmaking..........when you make snow it fills in the mogul field. Whiteface cannot build a WC Mogul field when there is not a World Cup.
Hey, thanks for the scoop. It's an explanation. Not entirely sure I agree with the decision making, but it's an explanation. And, no, I don't expect them to rebuild a World Cup course for no reason.

[highpeaksdrifter]

Checked in with Whiteface and here is the skinny.

Wilderness was absolutely hammered with snowmaking..........when you make snow it fills in the mogul field. Whiteface cannot build a WC Mogul field when there is not a World Cup.

Currently there are 3 trails that are consistantley allowed to be bumped up Mac, Lower Skyward and upper Cloud. After Monday's weather, the bumps are definitely not ideal . look for these trails to be groomed out in the upcoming days.

Once a significant snowfall hits these trails will be allowed to be bumped up again.

Last weekend essex was left ungroomed same with upper northway....

Bumps on Upper Skyward where a treat on Sat. Alot of man made on that trail.