here's hoping...

[Cliff]

Hi all, happy middle-of-the-summer;
Here's hoping that management reads this, (I have a sneaking suspicion they do).

The wife and I have decided to go another season with passes. We were going to jump ship and try Okemo/Stratton, but the gas prices have made us rethink and stick closer.

That said:

Here's hoping that "they" don't spend all the grooming/snowmaking bucks on the new terrain. While I'm certainly looking forward to it, I don't want to see other stuff left as orphans.

Here's hoping that the snowmaking crew stops leaving the guns in one spot, creating the ubiquitous snow-whales that they try, with something less than success, to flatten out into a smooth ribbon of snow.

Here's hoping that "they" open access to the highpeaks/north side during the week for us that can get up there then. I've said it before and I'll say it again; it's akin to being able to only play the front 9 at the club after you've paid for the whole enchilada.

Here's hoping "they" don't leave out Fairview from the rotation. Last year's opening was an afterthought at best.

Here's hoping for a great season!!!! Have a great rest of summer everybody and please try not to crucify me too badly on this. I've been skiing for almost 50 years and have learned a few things on how a ski resort should operate, (and have also become kinda picky in my older years). Indulge me!!

[Buella79]

Being a mostly mid-week skier I hear ya loud & clear about the north side not being open.. especially when we get a few inches of freshe snow during the week only to see the lift not runnin...bummer

[mattchuck2]

I'd imagine that the new trails are being buit with new, integrated snowmaking technology that makes snowmaking on them more efficient than snowmaking on other trails . . . This is not backed up by any fact, just an assumption.

Plus, with the new trails being accessed by a high speed quad, they might need comparitively more snow because it will be skied off quicker.

PLUS, screw the North Side . . . I want to try the new trails. The North Quad is old and slow, and the trails SUCK in comparison . . . Powder Pass?!?!?! Give me a break . . . Topridge any day!!!

[Cliff]

Yup,opinions vary.....I knew this was coming, just surprised it took this long :wink: .

Did I say Powder Pass?; I don't think so. Besides, I like variation and it still bothers me that a good portion of the hill is closed weekdays. If you are satisfied with doing laps on the same few trails, good for you.

I'll stick to my opinion in that it's a great mountain, albiet poorly managed.

Peace!

[Harvey44]

Funny thing is that when I read Cliff's original post, I looked past the North Side part and only saw the High Peaks reference. Clearly it's expensive to open the whole mountain on a weekday. On minimum days I think they run the Gondi, Topridge, Straightbrook and something beginner like Sunway.

If you could only have 4 chairs which would you choose? IMO 5th should be High Peaks. It's probably not realistic to think High Peaks would open before SB.

One thing that has been cool is the preservation of fresh snow for the weekenders because of lift closure. Obviously locals won't like that. I wouldn't. But on the other hand, without weekend skiers the mountain wouldn't be a viable "business."

I think they have done a pretty good job at Gore recently. But when I'm skiing on a weekday and High Peaks is closed, I get cranky too.

And remember you can always earn your turns if you want it badly enough.

[mattchuck2]

I actually kind of like the way they sometimes keep the High peaks trails (hullaballo, steilhang, etc.) open, but don't open the high peaks lift . . .

This forces you to take Wood Out, ride up the North Chair, go down to the Gondi, ride that, then ride Straightbrook to get back to the top. Talk about a long lap . . . That's powder preservation at its finest. . .

I don't think the mountain is poorly managed at all, except for my well documented desire for more bump runs (At the very LEAST, Hawkeye, Rumor, Topridge and Fairview should always be bumped), and a little more attention to the parks.

If I could only have 4 lifts?

Gondi, Straightbrook, High Peaks, and New High Speed Quad.

[St. Jerry]

Gorey-Gully, Old Red Gondola, Snowtubing tube pull, and Old Showcase yellow double chair. That's my 4.

And perhaps the j-bar on weekends to help thin out the crowds.

[Cliff]

Poke fun if you want, it's all in good fun, and certainly I have broad enough shoulders to take it. The bottom line is I'm 62 years old and not about to rip bump runs anymore!! Just can't, so the occasional Sleeping Bear or Tahaws as a warmup or especially after lunch is a great break for me. Indeed my favorites are Topridge, Lies, Upper Darby, (when available), Hullabaloo, etc....I just can't do steeper stuff all day like I did 30 years ago. This is only one reason why I bitch about the North and High Peaks not open during the week.

The other reason is that they're really hosing us by not giving us access to the whole mountain. I don't care whether the reason is "saving it for the weekend", saving on electricity, salaries, or whatever they want to call it, it just ain't right. As Matt said, if the North Quad is open, then you can still ski the High Peaks stuff, even though it's a long lap back. At least it's doable if you want. As for the "earning the turns", I revert back to my opening, I'm just too freakin' old with too many joint issues to walk back out. It really hurts to walk up hill, let alone with skiboots on!

I'm not looking for any sympathy here, just stating that as you get older, folks, some things change.

At the end of the day, I think they could do better.

[Harvey44]

Poke fun if you want, it's all in good fun, and certainly I have broad enough shoulders to take it. The bottom line is I'm 62 years old and not about to rip bump runs anymore!! Just can't, so the occasional Sleeping Bear or Tahaws as a warmup or especially after lunch is a great break for me. Indeed my favorites are Topridge, Lies, Upper Darby, (when available), Hullabaloo, etc....I just can't do steeper stuff all day like I did 30 years ago. This is only one reason why I bitch about the North and High Peaks not open during the week.

The other reason is that they're really hosing us by not giving us access to the whole mountain. I don't care whether the reason is "saving it for the weekend", saving on electricity, salaries, or whatever they want to call it, it just ain't right. As Matt said, if the North Quad is open, then you can still ski the High Peaks stuff, even though it's a long lap back. At least it's doable if you want. As for the "earning the turns", I revert back to my opening, I'm just too freakin' old with too many joint issues to walk back out. It really hurts to walk up hill, let alone with skiboots on!

I'm not looking for any sympathy here, just stating that as you get older, folks, some things change.

At the end of the day, I think they could do better.

Great post Cliff.

In part, I'm teasing about earning turns as I've ridden lifts 90% of the time the last 3 years.

Not sure if you've ever done any tele. It does make icy steeps harder, but it sounds like you've given those up for lent. For me, tele also makes earning turns easier. And I really like Tahawas or Twister trees... they are tons of fun. All of the trees really.

I'd love to see the whole mountain open every day. All my favorite chairs except Straightbrook are the ones they close.

My question is...HOW MUCH would my pass cost if those chairs were open every day? Or maybe Weds-Fri? Plus powders days. :lol:

Unlike Matt...I'm not able to clearly imagine how much I'm going to like Burnt Ridge. It does look like there will be some Darkside style rocks to huck over there. 8)

[Cliff]

Hi Harvey;
Interesting thoughts......hmmmmmm.

It seems to me that Gore, owned by the State, should have deep enough pockets to keep pass prices in line even if they should open some more stuff weekdays. I'm not saying it should be a charity case or anything, just keep it real.

If you look the "major resorts", (VT, CO, etc), you''ll find that they have some really great deals on passes if you buy early, (like we do), and you can access all the terrain, (maybe not all lifts, but all the terrain). The Colorado pass is so cheap that it makes me sick to hear about it!! Let's face it, Gore ain't no Breck, Keystone or Vail! If they can do it with all their overhaed, why can't our hill open a chair or two? Maybe I'm missing something that only management is privy to.

If you look at the off-the-street ticket prices, Gore & WF are starting to approach the VT areas, (and I think those folks are really sticking it to the average guy, (they really cater to the wealthy down-state crowd with lots of bucks to spend).

Still love to ski, there's nothing like it!

[Harvey44]

Let's face it, Gore ain't no Breck, Keystone or Vail! If they can do it with all their overhaed, why can't our hill open a chair or two? !

When you average 300 inches of snow, and never get rain, you can save a lot of cash on snowmaking and grooming.

[mattchuck2]

It seems to me that Gore, owned by the State, should have deep enough pockets to keep pass prices in line even if they should open some more stuff weekdays. I'm not saying it should be a charity case or anything, just keep it real.

So you want NYS taxpayers to subsidize Gore to operate at a loss?

Seems like a tough thing to push forward at a time when the state is scrambling to cut costs any ways they can . . .

[Cliff]

1) Breck, Keystone and Vail all make a lot of snow, especially early. They groom every blue, every green every day at Breck. Vail has the most grooming in NA.

2) If it was run right, Gore wouldn't have to dip from the txapayers. They should be making money hand-over-fist!!

Peace.

[megatron]

2) If it was run right, Gore wouldn't have to dip from the txapayers. They should be making money hand-over-fist!!

Peace.

Word!!!
http://www.postimage.org/gx27BUUS.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx27BUUS)

[mattchuck2]

2) If it was run right, Gore wouldn't have to dip from the txapayers. They should be making money hand-over-fist!!

Okay, I'll bite . . .

What would be the "right" way to run Gore?

What ideas would you implement to improve the bottom line?

Is the idea to open more lifts and terrain on the weekend really going to help this? Or is it just something that you want for yourself? (Because if it's the second case, then I wholeheartedly agree with you)

How would Gore make money "hand over fist" when a lot of other eastern areas are in flux, with closings, ownership changes, and flat skier visits?

Gore has improved skier visits substantially in the past few years . . . Is more skiers the "right" way to run Gore? Or do you think that Gore should maintain a core component of locals and regulars, and just dip occasionally into bigger markets on Holiday Periods?

Looking forward to your answers . . .

[Cliff]

All;
Let's not beat this any more!!!! Let's agree to disagree on some points.

I never said I could run it better....heavens knows, I don't have the skills. Maybe mgt has their hands tied with the State, I don't know, but I think it could be better.

One thing that would help is really opening up the surrounding area for outside development, (I can hear this now!), and letting commercial ventures bring beds/skier visits into the area. That would deepen the pockets, no? Do I want this?....not at all; you asked for possible suggestions and I'm providing one.

If closing a lift or two during the week is really gonna make-or-break the budget, then they have big problems! I still think we're getting hosed by not having access to that terraion we have paid for with our passes/day tickets. If other areas can provide access to their trails, why can't Gore?

Do I, personally, want more skiers?....of course not! Remember that I grew up in the 60's and injustices really piss us off :wink: .

At the end of the day, I still wanna ski High Peaks and North during the week....sorry if some disagree, but that's what makes this country great.

Still a really great mountain and I really like it.

How 'bout we quit now?

[Harvey44]

Let's not beat this any more!!!!
I thought that was the whole point of the internet? :lol:

OK Cliff I'll give it up. But watch what you wish for.

[Cliff]

Let's not beat this any more!!!!
I thought that was the whole point of the internet?

OK Cliff I'll give it up. But watch what you wish for.

Hi Harvey!
If you read my original post, (and not hidden), was my hope that mountain mgt would read it and pick up on some of the issues I pointed out. Maybe they don't really see things the way a "regular" skier sees 'em and maybe the State has them tied up. BUT, I don't think it wouldn't take much to open another lift weekdays and maybe move a snowgun so as not to create a "terrain park" where one was not intended.

My hope was to have all benefit.

I kinda figured that I'd elicit some defensive response from the "Gorelings". I'm a true realist and try hard to look at things for what they are and don't give loyalties just "because".

This isn't a personal attack on anyone, so please don't take it as such. You all have posted many, many good issues and I don't want to make enemies. :)

Peace, genntlemen.

[mattchuck2]

Let's not beat this any more!!!!
I thought that was the whole point of the internet? :lol:

DEFINITELY . . . ;-)

Especially in the middle of summer . . .

I think everybody would like it if the whole mountain was open all week, but the moutain obviously isn't. It would also be great if we got 400 inches of snow a year, but we don't. And if ifs and buts were candies and nuts, it'd be Christmas every day.

I think instead of complaining about how the mountain is set up on any particular day, your time would be better spent figuring out how to maximize the terrain available. Just one man's opinion.

Also, please understand that I'm not trying to intentionally pick fights here. I really am genuinely interested on what people think about how to improve the mountain . . . I know that I have a lot of different opinions than all of my friends. and there are a lot of times where a solution (more onslope lodging/development) may create more problems than it solves.

[Harvey44]

...there are a lot of times where a solution (more onslope lodging/development) may create more problems than it solves.

This is what I was thinking. I'm having a hard time seeing how the ski bowl development will help the pure skiing experience. It seems to me that it's going to add more skiers than terrain. One thing I love about Gore now...if you use half your brain, you never have to wait in a liftline. I'd hate to lose that.

I realize that there is more to life in North Creek than skiing. IF all of that development improves life in the Creek, that's important.

I'm hoping to move up in the next 15 years. At that point I'll probably just ski weekdays and powder days. If the mountain get too crowded for me, I guess I'll slink back into the Siamese where I came from. 8)

[Cliff]

OK, OK, some more thoughts from a cranky old f*art;


• Taxpayers: the more I think about it, why not let ‘em foot some of the bill? After all, we pay for State parks, boat launches, picnic areas, etc. Why not skiing? So what if everybody doesn’t use the hill? I don’t use everything else that I pay for that others use.
• Profit: when I see the lots overflowing down the access road most weekends, I have to think that if a profit isn’t being made, somthin’s wrong.
• Development: I certainly don’t want it!! I’m selfish enough to want to keep Gore the way it is. I was just suggesting that if there’s no other way to make money, that’s how the “big guys” do it. And yes, I do know how to avoid lines. My first time to Gore was ~ 1965 or so. How ‘bout most of you?
• IMHO, there are those that have placed, (or should I say misplaced), a loyalty to the mountain. Listen guys, this is a business and they should be making money in order to say viable. Your loyalties should be first and foremost to yourselves and families, not a ski resort. The resort could give a crap less if you live or die, there’s always more where you came from to put fannies on the lift. If you feel that not providing a full selection of trails midweek is OK, then you’re suffering from a severe case of “Lowered Expectations”. I, for one, want my money’s worth! Maybe when you get older and can really see a fixed income just around the corner, it’ll look different to you.
• If they want to charge near-Vermont prices, then they should provide near-Vermont services.

Peace and love, and when's this stinkin' rain gonna stop?

[megatron]

You all have way too much time on your hands
:evil:

C


http://www.postimage.org/gx2k55QA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2k55QA)

[Cliff]

Hi Meg;
:mrgreen: Yeah, I know, but it breaks up the workday. Actually, I was trying to walk away from this no-win when I got a push from behind:
OK Cliff I'll give it up. But watch what you wish for.[/quote]
Guess I can't have some agree that I may have a valid point even if they don't feel it pertains to them.

Oh well......
Stay dry!

[SKIdds]

Just my $.02 on lift openings, or lack thereof. I think Gore is a great mountain. Lots of interesting terrain. However, their policy to keep certain lifts closed midweek makes me reluctant to choose Gore when I want to take a midweek ski day. How many others are there like me? I don't know. Is the revenue they could be losing more than what it would cost to turn those lifts midweek? Don't know that one either. Just some food for thought..........

[Cliff]

Wow! Someone who agrees with me. Maybe I should offer to buy dinner :wink: .

Anyway, let me try this approach:
Let's say, hypothetically, that Gore were to hire a real honest-to-gosh marketing type and let him/her make some policy decisions. Now, if you look around any mountain, you'll see that the majority of skiers are blue/green skiers. OK, let's suppose the marketing person decides to select the midweek lift closings by skier demographics. Hmmmmm, I wonder what the reaction would be if Straightbrook was chosen? Betcha the screams would be heard all the way to ORDA!!
Don't the blue/green skiers count, or are they just those folks who get in the way of the elite heading to their holy grails? "Screw 'em, right?, I got mine".
Look, it's simple, if the terrain is open and accessable on the weekend, it should be so weekdays. Why can't the blue/green folks have variety too?
Hoo boy!

[TomCat]

I have friends that love Gore but won't consider it early in the season due to the slow snow making relative to VT. I've got to believe that are many others who choose other mountains mid week due to the more limited open terrain.

Whether it makes business sense to make more snow early and open more lifts mid week I don't know. I've suggested to gore that they open North and High Peaks on alternating days so mid weekers can experience the whole mountain. I will give them credit for making a consistent effort to have more terrain open on Fridays so those of us lucky enough for a three day weekend know which three days to choose.

tom

[megatron]

http://www.postimage.org/Pq1XTRFr.gif (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1XTRFr)

C




http://www.postimage.org/gx2k55QA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2k55QA)

[mattchuck2]

http://www.postimage.org/Pq1XTRFr.gif (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1XTRFr)

C




http://www.postimage.org/gx2k55QA.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2k55QA)

My thoughts exactly . . .

[jimmer]

allrite heres my useless drivel,i ski mid-wek mostly,from my point,they usually spend most of the week getting ready for the weekenders witch i think sucks,oh sure we get a few days of good stuff,but its with snow guns a blarin[witch i dont mind at all]trals closed,lifts closed,not much groomig,but do i complain,hell no,we just head for the trees.,the gang i ski with can make even the shitiest of days a blast,if youv got thick enough skin that is,so quit yer bitchen and just go ski,damm it.

btw,how you doin cork?hope your havin a good summer and well be seein you soon.

jimmer b 8)
oh and dont believe that stuff where i said i dont complain.

[Buella79]

FN halarious!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: ...

[megatron]

Hi Guys!!! All is good up here on the North Creek front.
http://www.postimage.org/gx2v3RNA.gif (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx2v3RNA)

C



http://www.postimage.org/Pq212LFr.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq212LFr)