Lookout pix on whiteface.com - update??

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Come on Whiteface....We haven't got an "official" update of Lookout Mountain on Whiteface's website in almost two months....Can we get some pix of the lift installation? More trail work? Anything??

http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/onmtn.php

Thank you!

[manhattenskier]

I hiked Whiteface on Friday to take a look at the new work. The short of it is there isn't much visible progress. They seem to mainly be working on the snowmaking system and putting in piping for that.

No lift towers have been put up except one at the bottom. Nor have the trails been cleared of debree.

Personally, from what I saw I didn't think they'd be able to open it this year. But people on the snowjournal forum assured me they would be able to.

BTW, I will post pics and more details later. But the new area is BIG and looks good. The new intermediate trail looks awesome and is over 2,700 in total vertical!!! (2,200 in new trail and about 500 existing trail vertical)

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

I hiked Whiteface on Friday to take a look at the new work. The short of it is there isn't much visible progress. They seem to mainly be working on the snowmaking system and putting in piping for that.

No lift towers have been put up except one at the bottom. Nor have the trails been cleared of debree.

Personally, from what I saw I didn't think they'd be able to open it this year. But people on the snowjournal forum assured me they would be able to.

BTW, I will post pics and more details later. But the new area is BIG and looks good. The new intermediate trail looks awesome and is over 2,700 in total vertical!!! (2,200 in new trail and about 500 existing trail vertical)


Cool. Thanks for the details, and great first post!

Maybe the lack of progress explains why no new details have been posted to whiteface.com.....

Still hoping to hit the awesome new terrain this year!

[highpeaksdrifter]

I hiked Whiteface on Friday to take a look at the new work. The short of it is there isn't much visible progress. They seem to mainly be working on the snowmaking system and putting in piping for that.

No lift towers have been put up except one at the bottom. Nor have the trails been cleared of debree.

Personally, from what I saw I didn't think they'd be able to open it this year. But people on the snowjournal forum assured me they would be able to.

BTW, I will post pics and more details later. But the new area is BIG and looks good. The new intermediate trail looks awesome and is over 2,700 in total vertical!!! (2,200 in new trail and about 500 existing trail vertical)

Where shall I start?...Well as far as progress goes lets just take today, a helicopter brought concrete up to the top for the footing there. The walls where going up for Pump House 5 near the Coon Pit which will service Lookout.

Lookout below is completely clear, the Flume was cleared by hand, but you can't see that from the top. The top of Hoyt's will be cleared by an excavator.

I guess you didn't hike up the Wilmington trail cause you would have seen all the excavating machines there that are working on that trail daily. It's almost done.

The liftline has been widened and cleared and is ready for the towers. If you went over to the Bear Den parking lot you would have seen the towers, cable, etc waiting to go up. The lift should be up around Oct. Fest.

I'm really looking forward to your pixs, (can't get enough) but I'm thinkin before last Friday you didn't have much of a reference. In the SKIADK gallery you can find progress pixs dating back to last Oct.

They told you right at the Snowjournal, Lookout will be open this season.

Everyone has a right to post their opinion, I'm just trying to keep it real. There has been unbeliveable progress.

Lookout Below wasn't even suppose to open until next season. It will be open this season with snowmaking.

[manhattenskier]

Don't quite understand the need for contention here - I was just reporting what I saw.

No I didn't hike up the Wilmington trail. They were working on it and they have these little red signs all over the place saying "Danger Construction Area Stay Out". Personally I don't like getting yelled at for being places where I am not supposed to be and there was an excevator working right there at the bottom of that trail so I didn't attempt to hike it. Also, later on I considered hiking the access road that snakes up it after the excevator had left but that had a big sign saying "No one on this road without prior approval of trail department". So again, being the relatively law abiding person that I am I decided not to hike it. I will say that from what I could see the intermediate trail did look largely cleared - at least at the bottom.

Then there is the shorter expert trail that breaks off from Wilmington trail and returns to the new lift. It was definitely not clear and had big rocks and logs all over the place.

The expert trail along the lift line didn't have a stay out sign immediate visible so I thought I'd give it a shot and hike up it. However, after a about 200 or 300 feet up it goes from being cleared to being completely covered by big rocks and logs. Given how steep it was and unsteady the footing was combined with the debree and my being alone I decided it was wiser not to continue up.

Anyways, none of the visible trails besides the intermediate Wilmington trail were cleared of debree. And when I was there they didn't seem to be doing any work on the lift line - it was pipe laying they were doing.

All of that is to say A) it gave me some concern they might be behind schedule and B) it probably explains why they haven't updated the web-site pics as the work they are doing right now doesn't lend itself to pictures the way puting up lift towers does.

I think B is still true while A is apparently wrong because the remaining work can be done fairly quickly.

I am happy for that as the new intermediate trail looks like it is fantastic. No way will I go on the new expert terrain as it is too steep and narrow for me.

[manhattenskier]

BTW, seeing as we have a discussion going maybe someone can help me with some Whiteface history.

In the first big post on this board about Lookout mountian they mention the "re-opening of the old Cloudsplitter trail". And when I was in the lodge on Friday in the coffee bar where they have a bunch of old pictures of Whiteface from the early 50s and one clearly shows a trail pretty much where the Wilmington trail seems to run.

So... is the "new" Wilmington trail the "old" Cloudsplitter trail? And if so, how did people get to it? Its not clear to me that there was any lift going there.

The other thing I learned was that the old Whiteface on the other side of the mountian was really two areas - Marble Mountain lower down and Lookout Mountain higher up. Was the Cloudsplitter trail part of those areas?

The reason I ask was I was reading a book about Lake Placid's Olympic history and it mentioned that they actually built a trail with over 2,000 vertical feet on that side of the mountain for possible use in an Olympics. I guess nothing came of it when they later built the present Whiteface ski area, unless that is part of the new Wilmington trail.

Finally, with Lookout Mountain Whiteface is about at its maximum allowable trail mileage meaning they'd need a constitutional amendment to build much more. Yet it would seem the old Lookout and Marble mountain ski areas would offer great opportunities for expansion and possibly offer more intermediate terrain. My mother who skied them in the 40s said the problem with them was they relied on natural snow and that part of the mountain didn't get enough snow. But modern snowmaking could potentially fix that problem. Is anyone involved with Whiteface even thinking of that for maybe a long term project or should I forget it as something that is not even contemplated and will never happen?

Sorry for the long post and all the question but I have to say Whiteface history has me intrigued now.

[highpeaksdrifter]

Don't quite understand the need for contention here - I was just reporting what I saw.


I really wasn’t trying to be contentious, just giving my take on things.

[highpeaksdrifter]

So... is the "new" Wilmington trail the "old" Cloudsplitter trail? .

If you look at this aerial shot, taken long before the Lookout expansion, I believe it’s the old Cloudspin trail we are looking at on the right. It’s my understanding that Hoyt’s/Flume has the old trail as part of it, not the Wilmington trail.

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album03/78149451HIlnNF_ph.gif

[manhattenskier]

Thanks for the picture. I had seen that picture before but never noticed the old trail on it.

Still not quite sure if it is completely what I saw (nor how anyone got to it to ski). I believe what I was looking at went pretty much all the way down the mountain.

I took a picture of it which I will try to post tonight though due to glare (it was a framed picture) I'm not sure how well it came out.

[Face4Me]

I'm certainly not an expert, but I had done some reading about a year or so ago and this is what I remember.

The Marble Mtn ski area was the original ski area at Whiteface. Access to it was from the Whiteface Summit road. If you go to MapQuest and enter the address 191 Marble Mountain Lane, 12997, you can get the satellite view of the old base area. It's currently used as an atmospheric sciences research facility I believe.

If you set the zoom at the right level from the satellite view, you can make out a very narrow straight line through the trees beginning at the base of the mountain, where the road forms a loop, to the top of the mountain (in a south-westerly - about 7:00 - direction). As I understand it, this straight line that was cut through the trees was the location of a T-Bar (or J-Bar) that was used to transport skiers from the base to the summit. After some number of years of operation, it was decided that the natural snowfall was better on the other side of the mountain, the present location of the Whiteface ski area, so the original Marble Mtn area was abandoned.

There used to be a website called SkiingHistoryInNewYork which had some great information and pictures about ski areas throughout New York state, but unfortunately, it no longer seems to be active.

As far as the old Cloudsplitter trail, I'm not familiar with its history - maybe someone else has some info that they can share.

[manhattenskier]

running into some technical difficulties but I did get at least the old map put into the gallery. The quality isn't the best because it is a picture of a glass covered map in the Whiteface lodge and so has glare. But you can see pretty much everything.

Note the two ski areas - Lookout and Marble Mountain were linked by a trail along a ridge called the "Wilmington Trail". Hmmm, could that be the same ridge that the current Wilmington trail is on and maybe even the same trail??

I don't know, but it would sure seem plausible. I am confident Whiteface management would know for sure, one day I'll have to track them down and ask.

I should have the construction pics up later.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

One of the ways to hike up Esther and Whiteface is via the old Marble Mountain area. After starting near the old base lodge (now a research center), the trail follows (or goes near) the old t-bar line. You can easily find some of the concrete bases.

This trail takes you up near the old (and current) Lookout Mountain terrain. I read after my hike how the trail goes quite near the old Porcupine Lodge, but I didn't see it during my hike (which took place in the early '90s).

Regarding the old Cloudsplitter Trail, I think HPD got it right with that picture he posted. I don't know much about the history regarding why they abandoned that side of the mountain and went with the current Lift 6 area, but I would imagine it had to do with the sun exposure issue (this was back in the day before good snowmaking technology).

[highpeaksdrifter]

This trail takes you up near the old (and current) Lookout Mountain terrain. I read after my hike how the trail goes quite near the old Porcupine Lodge, but I didn't see it during my hike (which took place in the early '90s).


Here's a pic I took of the Porcupine Lodge this summer. As you can see it will need a good amount of work before it can be used for more then storage. It will be nice to use when it's done, but I'm glad WF is putting their effoorts into the lift, trails and snowmaking for this season.

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album50/065_G.jpg

[takeahike46er]

Note the two ski areas - Lookout and Marble Mountain were linked by a trail along a ridge called the "Wilmington Trail". Hmmm, could that be the same ridge that the current Wilmington trail is on and maybe even the same trail??

The "Wilmington Trail" you refer to does not share the same ridgeline as the "Wilmington Trail" set to debut this year.

Below is a topo map from 1953 that shows Marble Mountain/Lookout prior to the opening of Whiteface as we know it. The green line is approximately where the old "Wilmington Trail" traveled, whereas the red line is approximately where the new "Wilmington Trail" will debut.

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album51/1953topo.jpg

[manhattenskier]

Wow, thanks for the excellent post and map showing us that.

What this also shows is that some day way in the future if they have the resources, inclination, and a new state constitution allowing for more expansion they could build a bunch more trails from the top of Lookout down the other side, including some quite long ones. That would make Whiteface a pretty big ski area and possibly boost Whitefaces attraction to intermediate skiers such as myself.

Of course, its only a dream but you never know. :P :lol:

[manhattenskier]

uploaded some pictures to my album of the actual trails and work I saw done last Friday. Don't have time to properly post it in the thread now but I think most readers will know what they are looking at - some really big water pipes, concrete tower footings, some trails with lots of rocks and logs still, and an excevator at the bottom of Wilmington with a red "Danger Keep Out" sign.

One can also see the a concete and metal structure somewhat between where the new lift will go and and the unloading area of the Facelift. Looks like it will be some small build but I don't know exactly what.

When I get time I'll try to post more.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

WOW!!

This is a FANTASTIC map! Never seen it before. Clearly shows Marble Mt. + the slopes up above. Really cool. Thanks for posting it to the gallery.....

Would have been fun to have skied there. Could make for a killer backcountry loop from the top of the new lift, assuming you have a transport vehicle parked at the research center (and someone takes the time to clear out the brush a little).



http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/Whiteface-Sept-5-2008/white_map.jpg

[mark]

ask and ye shall receive

http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/onmtn.php

enjoy

thanks,
mark

[NPN]

Thanks M..

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Fantastic shots!! Thanks, Mark, for putting these up.

Looks like some great progress is being made.

[tjf67]

Information like this is why I like these boards. I used to like the banter with other people till the owner took his ball and would not let other people play.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Time to bring this thread back up to the top....

It's lift installation day!

:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: Let's get some pix on whiteface.com (please)! Along with some more shots of the new terrain....Maybe with some foliage mixed in?