interconnect lift; good idea or 5.1 million dollar giveaway?

[Snowballs]

i gotta ask.
has anybody taken a serious look at the interconnect project ? i've been checking it out and am having serious doubts on the wisdom of the project. here's why.

according to the map, map_2-SEIS project relation map, filed in the SEIS (lower left-hand corner on gore's home page), the interconnect lift is over 8500 feet long! that's on a "as the crow flies", 2 dimensional map. in reality, with the up and down contours it's probably over 9000 feet long! about 2000 feet longer than the gondola. remember this is a fixed grip lift. at two meters per second (the fastest fixed grips approach 2.3 meters) this interconnect lift will be at least a 25 minute ride. who in the heck is gonna ride that? this lift will be like riding the topridge triple TWICE, then riding the village chair and then after all that, YOU GET TO SKI.............

the ski bowl! BIG WHOOP!

have you skied the ski bowl ? even the kids don't like it. the place is a vitual ghost town. have you seen the proposed ski bowl trails ? they're akin to the trails off of the sunway chair ! think you'll like the pipeline trail down to the ski bowl ? think again. i've been down that flat trail. it's like the part of cloud between santanoni and the saddle lodge, plus part of it is uphill ! but wait, there's more bad news.

who's gonna ride this thing ? nobody. oh sure, a few first timers will for the novelty,(like they did at the ski bowl). but once people see how lame it is they won't ride it. you'll lose ~ an hour outta your ski day getting down there and back. so whose left? the people at the ski bowl village? well, they are not there yet and there's no gurauntee they're ever gonna be there in numbers. but if they are ever there then what? they ride it up to gore in the morning? ski down the at days end ? and then the rest of the day it just runs EMPTY? while we pay for the snowmaking, the electricity and lifties to operate this "lift to nowhere", it's gonna run empty ! let's not forget that these people will only be here on the weekends if they ever come ! let's also not forget there is no true ski in and ski out capabilities or else they wouldn't be putting this lift in. IMO, the only reason this is going in is so Front Street Mountain Developement can advertise/sell their high priced properties as " SLOPESIDE " properties ! disagree? remember the 11 million dollar gondola they wanted the State to put in? it was approved, but the idea sunk under the weight of it's own blatant stupidity. but wait, there's more bad news.

well, what about this notion of tying Gore mtn. to the Ski Bowl and thus North Creek, bringing much needed revenue into North Creek ? again, another idea straight outta the " genius " bag. oh, ok. so we're gonna ski down to the ski bowl, lock up our skis, then walk in ski boots over a mile one way, just to get into north creek, then shop, eat, spend money, walk back one mile in ski boots and by then the "inter" lift will be closed! yea right ! " and the cow jumped over the moon ! " oh, we're supposed to do this during our ski day ? yea right! oh, they could have a shuttle run us over to town and back. in our ski boots? yea right ! nobody is gonna walk around town in their ski boots. oh, people will change first then go downtown? yea, in their freekin cars ! which means the $ 5,100,000.00 interconnect is not needed, is a waste and would be much better, much wiser being spent on the actual Gore mtn. but wait, there's more bad news.

IMO, the only reason this is being built is so Front Street can claim a " SLOPESIDE " location. keep in mind, our state is in VERY serious financial trouble and there's not gonna be extra money for Gore in the future, not for a very long time, PERHAPS NOT FOR DECADES! so, i gotta ask, do we really want to spend this 5.1 million dollars to benefit Front Street or do we want this money for the real Gore mtn? like say for a windmill to help offset the HUGE electricity costs!

[megatron]

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C


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[Harvey44]

For some reason I can't download that map off the gore site, but someone did post it in the "official" expansion thread.

I'd be lying if I said I hadn't had the same thoughts. The topo isn't super clear to me, but it does seem like the terrain is not ideal. (Megatron is right, we did beat on this subject pretty hard in the other thread). If you are right about the length and time, the hardcore skiers will probably drive up to the current base for first tracks. I would.

But then again anybody who has seen our place (http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2008/10/cabin-in-north-river.html) could probably guess that I'm not a Front Street kind of customer.

Maybe they should have a kind of middle-station, like the sunway chair so you could ride the lift more easily to ski the ski bowl. I think Megatron indicated that those trails were worth skiing.

I doubt this is in the top 100 of money "wasted" by the gov't.

[Snowballs]

If you are right about the length and time, the hardcore skiers will probably drive up to the current base for first tracks. I would.


right. that's another thing. it may be such an inconvenience that even the village people won't ride it as it may be simply easier just to drive.

[I:)skiing]

The issue, as far as I see it, is where does the chair offload. On the SIES map, it shows it going to the Gore Base. From other threads, this idea seems to have changed to it offloading somewhere on top of Burnt?

A fixed grip to Gore Base would be long and maynot be worth it. The origional proposal was a Gondola....to Gore Base, which I agreeed with. If the chair goes to Burnt.....this again is a good idea.

I want to see a map that shows it with a DATE.


Note: Is everyone agreed that the interconnecting lift will be lift 14? As discussed in the EIS.

[Snowballs]

i would say that the SEIS location for the inter lift offload is where it will be. the APA is strict and they couldn't go about making major changes without prior approval and going thru the whole process again.

any other location rumors maybe just " spin " to divert attention away from a bad idea.

case in point:

a few years, i rode the gondi one day w/front streets owner. the original idea was a $11,000,000.00 gondi from skibowl to gore mtn summit. which would have been a great selling point for the ski bowl village, but a bad idea for the taxpayers and the rest of gore skiers as that terrian doesn't warrant $11,000,000.00. after voiceing this obvious reality to him, then to others, the story morphed into oh it's not planned, or oh it's just going to the base or a few other variants till the final result of it's not going to be built.

substitute the intermtn lift. an attempt to maintain " SLOPESIDE " status for the SB village.

now don't get me wrong, i think extra trails will be great if done right. burnt ridge looks cool. i just hope we don't have to pole 3/4 of a mile to get to it.

[takeahike46er]

...the $ 5,100,000.00 interconnect is not needed, is a waste and would be much better, much wiser being spent on the actual Gore mtn.

You can argue that the money being spent is a waste, but it is important to note that the funding for the interconnect is grant money. This is money that could never have been secured simply for the sake of snowmaking upgrades, better grooming, etc. The grants were likely for economic development in distressed municipalities. If the money was not awarded to the Gore Interconnect, it would have gone to some other town's economic development scheme. I'm glad it went to this project. The end result of this project and Front Street's development is that a lot of jobs are going to be created in an area that has very little.

As for an intermountain lift connecting the Ski Bowl base the Gore base, it's silly to discuss at this point. There is no secured funding that I know of, and there has been little mention of the lift since the plans were put forth years ago.

The triple chair that has been referred to is NOT connecting the Ski Bowl base to the Gore Mountain base. It is going restore the Ski Bowl to its original 960' of vertical (figure courtesy of NELSAP), traveling up the old T-bar line to the summit of Little Gore. This has been purchased and will be installed next fall. The initial trails and snowmaking are also funded. While this new terrain won't be an experts delight, it will be much more substantive than the Sunway Chair-- as suggested earlier. The end result is that you will be able to ski from the Little Gore/Ski Bowl summit to the Burnt Ridge base. You will also be able to ski from the Burnt Ridge summit to the Little Gore/Ski Bowl base.

[mattchuck2]

YES.

Good post 46er.

I think we all just need to relax and take a deep breath here. There's no use in getting all bent out of shape about things that aren't even happening.

[Snowballs]

i hear ya 46er. you, very civilly, raised some valid, interesting points.

but if one can truly ski in and ski out, then why even bother to install a interconnecting 8500'+ lift ? esp. one that does not even take you to the top of any runs? in fact it leaves you at the bottom of the runs.

what would be the purpose?

why would they even bother to propose it or seek approval to proceed?

and

if people can truly ski in and ski out, that just one more reason that any interconnect #14 lift would be running empty. why ride that super long lift when you could just ski down!

projects that create decent new trails AND local jobs i am all for - 100%. i'll even lobby for support to get it done.

for now, i'll take your word on the trails, though i doubt they'll be included w/your lift ticket, but the LOCAL people getting jobs part leaves me wondering why the Ski Bowl Village includes " Living Quarters for Ski Village Employees " building.

seems to me any locals that might get hired already live here. they already have a place here to live.

some of these things just aren't adding up. if i've upset anybody pardon me for pointing the anomolies out.

oh yeah, saying the grant(s) were "likely for" distressed areas is not the same as the grant(s) were for distressed areas.

if this lift is indeed just in the planning stage and not in the actively being sought to be built stage, then now is the time to discuss any weaknesses to avoid folly. i am just not sure you can ski in and ski out - hence the interconnecting lift. time will tell.

[I:)skiing]

Thnks 46.....been trying to figure out the lift thing for 2 or more weeks. Lift 14 was throwing me off.

It was my understanding the 5.1 M that Patacki granted was for the Gondi----and now it is being subverted, which is fine.


I have hiked around the ski bowl. I agree this is blue territory, and can be fun. Bit steep for any green runs...but that could be where the "home" runs are. I have a 1 and 3 yr old and will be spending quite a few yrs on greens and blues. THen likely the park.

[adkskier]

The lift connecting to the base area is old news. it hasn't been considered beyond fantasy in several years. It remains on the map and in the UMP but will probably never be built.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Snowballs,

Gotta ask....Why are you so pissed about this?

[kornfein]

Per the article in the Albany Times Union the lift from the ski bowl is 3800' long, elsewhere I've heard it described as 1/2 mile. I know earlier the plans seemed to call for a lift to the bottom of the North chair or Gondola to the Gore base but that is not the current plan (fortunately). http://blogs.timesunion.com/business/?p=4978

It seems to me that allowing for slope side accommodations and access from North Creek are reasonable things to do. i think Gore can handle more traffic especially on weekdays which would be beneficial IMHO. Gore rarely has lift lines and this year it will have an additional high speed quid to alleviate them further.

North Creek has recently lost a number of business and making Gore more of a destination resort would hopefully help the town, also use of land in the Adirondack park is restricted (as it should be) so there aren't as many opportunities for economic development as elsewhere.

[Snowballs]

[/quote]
The triple chair that has been referred to is NOT connecting the Ski Bowl base to the Gore Mountain base. It is going restore the Ski Bowl to its original 960' of vertical (figure courtesy of NELSAP), traveling up the old T-bar line to the summit of Little Gore. This has been purchased and will be installed next fall. [/quote]

see also the application map% 202 to the APA for the interconnect #14 lift lenght and location- these (^) are two different lifts. even a quick glance reveals it's looooong.

we already have connections between gore and north creek. they're called roads, have already been built and require no new dollars. in fact they go all the way into north creek thus eliminate the miles of walking in ski boots(ski bowl>northcreek>ski bowl) or the expense of a shuttle/then walking around town in ski boots. and they are open 24/7's- 365 unlike the lift that will operate 8:30-3:30 4 months out of the year.plus you don't have to take time outta your ski day to use them. the lift is not going to improve on that.

comeback- i'm not p.o.'ed. it's just a strongly written article. some things just weren't making sense so i brought it up for discussion. yo, comeback, IF it ever is built, are you gonna ride this almost 9000' long fixed grip lift on a regular basis- even if you truly can ski in/ski out?

i know the adk's are restricted and jobs are scarce, i live here. putting in this lift isn't a panecea to those problems. this reminds me of the fairy tale, the emporer's new clothes, " oh, it's wonderful! look how nice!" when in fact..............it's not needed if you can ski in/ski out.

it's understandable to want employment and economic well being. i'm all for that - never said i wasn't- raising issues w/this lift does not mean i'm against job creation.

it's also understandable to have fond memories of the glory days and the crowds w/their ski dollars brought to our area by the snow/ski trains.

i just don't think some of the plans are viable, including the snow/ski trains. don't think those crowds will ever materialise. and the money maybe better spent on other ideas.

with a state budget short billions of dollars (47 billion for 2012 alone) how much money will there be for development then?

i've made my points. the floor is yours. please keep rebuttals " on point ".

[kornfein]

The Times Union seems to think it does link the two. BTW i totally agree thiat if the plan really is for a 9000' fixed chair that is crazy.

Adirondack Park Agency approves Gore link to North Creek
October 10, 2008 at 12:20 pm by Eric Anderson, Deputy business editor

The agency this morning approved the plan that links the North Creek Ski Bowl to the Gore Mountain ski area.

The approval, at the APA’s monthly meeting, comes one day after the agency’s state land committee approved the plan and sent it to the full agency for consideration.

Environmental impact statements on the so-called interconnect plan, which includes ski trails and a new 3,800-foot chairlift, were prepared as part of the ski area’s expansion. While town officials hope the link will be in place as soon as the 2009-10 ski season, a spokesman for the Olympic Regional Development Authority cautioned that much still needs to be done.

Trails must be cleared, and the new $850,000 lift ordered and assembled, said ORDA spokesman Sandy Caligiore. ORDA last month agreed to purchase the lift for the link.

[Snowballs]

^^^ok. hold on. the lift you/the times union refer to was addressed in a previous post ^ by take a hike 46er. the lift you refer to goes from the base of the ski bowl to the top of lil gore, directly in front of the ski bowl. from the summit of lil gore you would ski down/over to burnt ridge - hence the connection!

[mattchuck2]

I still thought this was the plan:

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album22/Map_1_SEIS_Site_Location_Map.jpg

Am I missing something?

[Harvey44]

Why do people think there is a 9000' fixed grip lift anywhere in the plan? I don't see it. Was that the original length of the Gondi to Nowhere? I think Matt is right...the lift shown in the map takes you to the top of Little Gore and allows you to ski to the bottom of Burnt Ridge. The map shows it like that. If you are going to make the connection it the most efficient (cheapest) way to do it.

I guess what is confusing to me is Megatron...he always seems to know the scoop and he's says it's going to the North Chair. Would love to know where that info is coming from.

Also a bit OT...the trail from the top of BR to the North Chair looks SWEET.


i think Gore can handle more traffic especially on weekdays which would be beneficial IMHO. Gore rarely has lift lines and this year it will have an additional high speed quid to alleviate them further.

^^ Maybe I'm selfish...but I like short lines. Korn...do you like more skiers because you think they will open more weekday terrain? Also not sure that high speed lifts reduce lines just the time spent on the lift.

[megatron]

Ok everyone, ENOUGH!
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C



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[Snowballs]

Why do people think there is a 9000' fixed ?

harv the map posted by matt is not the one that shows lift #14. map_2 SEIS project relation map from the SEIS link lower left corner gore's homepage shows lift # 14. perhaps Matt will upload it for us. others may view it there for themselves.

[mattchuck2]

Hang on, I'll try . . .

[mattchuck2]

http://forums.skiadk.com/albums/album22/Map_2_SEIS_Project_Relation_Map.jpg

[mattchuck2]

Well, it does show that lift.

But I don't think anyone's serious about it.

And even if they are . . . I'd rather my tax dollars go to that than to give million dollar bonuses to Wall Street Bankers . . .

[I:)skiing]

Close your eyes (after reading this)....relax. Its 0 degrees F, wind just kicked up, blowing 20mph into your face, snow balls start to hit your uncovered face...hard. You forgot your balacava, damm. Long lift ride, but it will be over in 15 minutes.....then you hear the wheels stop. Stranded. Enjoy your next 3 hours...why did I go this way!!!!!!!!!

[mattchuck2]

That could happen on any lift . . . Couldn't it?

[I:)skiing]

Sure could.....Just looking for a way to let this thread move slowly into the "relax and fall asleep" zone.

My thoughts on this.....9000 foot High Speed or Gondi....good. Fix grip, burrrrrrrrrr.

But as the thread seems to pointing at.......a lot of discussion for what may be a very, very long way away.