Question about lookout

[nyspnypd]

I heard last year that the APA said that after this expansion they wont allow whiteface to add anymore trails. Is that true or is it just one of those rumors cause that would stink if they couldn't add anymore. :D

[snowman]

I am certainly not an expert on this, but both Whiteface and Gore are within the Park, so they are governed by the NYS constitution. The constitution says there can be a certain amount, in miles, of ski trails allowed. I think there is also a limit on the trail width. I had thought that Whiteface couldn't expand at all before the Lookout expansion. I am also not sure what the limit is and what Whiteface is at now. I do know that if Whiteface wants to expand past the limit, the NYS constitution would have to be modified.

I think (again I could be wrong) that this has something to do with the status of the slides. I am not sure if they count, since they are natural and not maintained by the ski area.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

[highpeaksdrifter]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

[Harvey44]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

Thank HPD - very interesting info that I didn't know.

Whatever the slides count for, they are worth it.

[highpeaksdrifter]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

Thank HPD - very interesting info that I didn't know.

Whatever the slides count for, they are worth it.

I don't see how they could count toward the 25 miles of trails. The Sugar Valley glades didn't count toward the mileage.

[Face4Me]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

Thank HPD - very interesting info that I didn't know.

Whatever the slides count for, they are worth it.

I don't see how they could count toward the 25 miles of trails. The Sugar Valley glades didn't count toward the mileage.
The following is from Article XIV of the New York State Constitution:

... Nothing herein contained shall prevent the state from ... nor from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than five miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the north, east and northwest slopes of Whiteface Mountain in Essex county, nor from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than two miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Belleayre Mountain in Ulster and Delaware counties and not more than forty miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than eight miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Gore and Pete Gay mountains in Warren county ...

Since the Slides were not "constructed" by the state nor are they "maintained", it would seem logical that they don't count towards the 25 mile limit.

[Harvey44]

Anybody know where Gore is, relative to the 40 miles, with the new expansion?

[NPN]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

Thank HPD - very interesting info that I didn't know.

Whatever the slides count for, they are worth it.

I don't see how they could count toward the 25 miles of trails. The Sugar Valley glades didn't count toward the mileage.
The following is from Article XIV of the New York State Constitution:

... Nothing herein contained shall prevent the state from ... nor from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than five miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the north, east and northwest slopes of Whiteface Mountain in Essex county, nor from constructing and maintaining not more than twenty-five miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than two miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Belleayre Mountain in Ulster and Delaware counties and not more than forty miles of ski trails thirty to two hundred feet wide, together with appurtenances thereto, provided that no more than eight miles of such trails shall be in excess of one hundred twenty feet wide, on the slopes of Gore and Pete Gay mountains in Warren county ...

Since the Slides were not "constructed" by the state nor are they "maintained", it would seem logical that they don't count towards the 25 mile limit.

Ouch!

I hope that I'm not the only one that gets an immediate brain freeze from reading legaleeeze.

But, back to reality, I'm not too worried about out dated documents. If the Federal government can print money any time they want to solve a problem, I think it's safe to say we'll see an ammendment to the existing NYS constitution if, and when the numbers show enough skier/rider visits to warrant another trail expansion ( sp? ).

In the meantime, I consider myself WAY lucky to almost be taking turns on new terrain period. Never thought it would happen in my lifetime, and sure as hell not going to waste my time considering more when I have the gift of now.

[Face4Me]

Ouch!

I hope that I'm not the only one that gets an immediate brain freeze from reading legaleeeze.
Oh come on ... it's not that bad ... you mean to tell me you don't use the phrase "appurtenances thereto" ALL the time in your daily life!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[CUskibum]

But, back to reality, I'm not too worried about out dated documents. If the Federal government can print money any time they want to solve a problem, I think it's safe to say we'll see an ammendment to the existing NYS constitution if, and when the numbers show enough skier/rider visits to warrant another trail expansion ( sp? ).

In the meantime, I consider myself WAY lucky to almost be taking turns on new terrain period. Never thought it would happen in my lifetime, and sure as hell not going to waste my time considering more when I have the gift of now.


Agreed. If it was the best option for the mountain to expand further, I'm sure that some strings would be pulled to make that possible. By the way, Face4Me, do you have the date when that amendment to the NY Constitution was made? It seems like something at that was added quite some time ago. I understand that the state wants to keep the Adirondacks forever wild, but if Whiteface was getting such a great influx of skiers that the current configuration couldn't handle all of them, I would think that another expansion might be considered.

I'm just really happy to see Lookout finally open. I've been skiing Whiteface for over 10 years; there were many times when I would be riding the Face Lift (or Valley Triple, way back when) and look towards Lookout and say to myself "man, that would be so awesome to ski." Now, its finally a reality.

4 days left!!!

[Face4Me]

But, back to reality, I'm not too worried about out dated documents. If the Federal government can print money any time they want to solve a problem, I think it's safe to say we'll see an ammendment to the existing NYS constitution if, and when the numbers show enough skier/rider visits to warrant another trail expansion ( sp? ).

In the meantime, I consider myself WAY lucky to almost be taking turns on new terrain period. Never thought it would happen in my lifetime, and sure as hell not going to waste my time considering more when I have the gift of now.


Agreed. If it was the best option for the mountain to expand further, I'm sure that some strings would be pulled to make that possible. By the way, Face4Me, do you have the date when that amendment to the NY Constitution was made? It seems like something at that was added quite some time ago. I understand that the state wants to keep the Adirondacks forever wild, but if Whiteface was getting such a great influx of skiers that the current configuration couldn't handle all of them, I would think that another expansion might be considered.

I'm just really happy to see Lookout finally open. I've been skiing Whiteface for over 10 years; there were many times when I would be riding the Face Lift (or Valley Triple, way back when) and look towards Lookout and say to myself "man, that would be so awesome to ski." Now, its finally a reality.

4 days left!!!
From what I found, 1894. Here's a link http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/constamendments2.html that provides some more info. From what this says, it would seem unlikely that the 25 mile limit at Whiteface would be increased, but then again, you never know!!!

[nyspnypd]

But, back to reality, I'm not too worried about out dated documents. If the Federal government can print money any time they want to solve a problem, I think it's safe to say we'll see an ammendment to the existing NYS constitution if, and when the numbers show enough skier/rider visits to warrant another trail expansion ( sp? ).

In the meantime, I consider myself WAY lucky to almost be taking turns on new terrain period. Never thought it would happen in my lifetime, and sure as hell not going to waste my time considering more when I have the gift of now.


Agreed. If it was the best option for the mountain to expand further, I'm sure that some strings would be pulled to make that possible. By the way, Face4Me, do you have the date when that amendment to the NY Constitution was made? It seems like something at that was added quite some time ago. I understand that the state wants to keep the Adirondacks forever wild, but if Whiteface was getting such a great influx of skiers that the current configuration couldn't handle all of them, I would think that another expansion might be considered.

I'm just really happy to see Lookout finally open. I've been skiing Whiteface for over 10 years; there were many times when I would be riding the Face Lift (or Valley Triple, way back when) and look towards Lookout and say to myself "man, that would be so awesome to ski." Now, its finally a reality.

4 days left!!!
From what I found, 1894. Here's a link http://www.adirondackcouncil.org/constamendments2.html that provides some more info. From what this says, it would seem unlikely that the 25 mile limit at Whiteface would be increased, but then again, you never know!!!

Alot of the things the state does are amazing so just hope that if at any time whiteface wants to expand again the state will allow it. But who knows. Cant wait 4 more days!!! :D

[fujative.]

No correction that I know of. Gore can have up to 40 miles and WF 25. Once WF builds the trail that will be close to Hoyts we will be at 24.5 miles.

Thank HPD - very interesting info that I didn't know.

Whatever the slides count for, they are worth it.

I don't see how they could count toward the 25 miles of trails. The Sugar Valley glades didn't count toward the mileage.

glades dont count for the mileage. only open trails

[nyspnypd]

Hey is there any chance if we get the kind of snow they are calling for they will open lookout or not likely? If they did that would be awesome :D