train news/blues

[Snowballs]

http://www.poststar.com/articles/2009/09/03/news/local/doc4aa03a9b6e412139018827.txt

[I:)skiing]

Thanks Snoballs.



That story has a little of everthing in it... Current news about operators....money issues, talk of still continuing the line to Saratoga...then the comments section.



After a yr and a half of following this story, I guess I am just as perplexed as the commissioners. Lets see...hindsight 15 yrs ago would definitely have resulted in a toe/bike path that would be WILDLY popular.....like drawing lots and lots of summer tourists. Now they are in to their eyes with money...do you kill the patient on the operating table and tell the family "hey we saved you money" Or.....keep cutting and sewing....hoping he lives, but knowing he has a 50/50 chance at best.

Having rode the train....lots (4 yo boy) and LOTS....and knowing some of the expenses involved....I feel sorry for the operator...maybe not sorry because they are a business in business to make/lose...but at least I understand some of the concerns.

[I:)skiing]

And then this was found.......

WOW-----snow train idea is alive and kicking again.


http://www.denpubs.com/Blog-2129.113116-2183.113116_1_million_grant_for_tourist_train_expe cted.html

Thom Randall
Randall's Ramblings
If you enjoy staying ahead of the curve on local politics and government, this is where you’ll find occasional postings of news updates, observations and opinion.



$1 million grant for tourist train expected
September 03, 2009 | 05:54 PM

QUEENSBURY — The long-awaited extension of Warren County's tourist railway to Saratoga Springs may become reality as soon as next Spring, county leaders learned today.

Warren County Board of Supervisors Chairman Fred Monroe said that he had been assured by representatives of U.S. Senators Kirsten Gillibrand and Sen. Schumer and U.S. Rep. Scott Murphy that $1 million in federal grant funding for repair of county train track in Saratoga County was approved.

The money would be spent on upgrading the 16-mile portion of the Warren County tourist rail line that runs between the Village of Corinth and the connection with CP Rail near Saratoga Springs.

The grant is going to the Town of Corinth, which is to administrate the grant, authorities said. Corinth Town Supervisor Riohard Lucia, busy with a town meeting Wednesday afternoon, did not return a phone call by 5 p.m..

For well over a decade, county leaders and area economic development officials have envisioned regular train service connecting North Creek with Saratoga Springs, the Capital Region and New York City. This connection would allow Manhattan skiers to leave their vehicles at home and enjoy a scenic ride all the way to North Creek, they've said. Also, it was envisioned to build

This federal grant, if it indeed materializes, is likely to make it happen.

Cliff Welz and Jerry Riegel of the Upper Hudson River Railroad said that the money would be spent on installing a crossing signal at Anton Mountain Road in Corinth, and replacing ties and improving the rail bed along the 16 miles of track from Corinth to the connection with the CP Rail line near Saratoga Springs. Upper Hudson River Railroad operates trains daily from North Creek to Riverside.

The $1 million would bankroll upgrading the track to Class 2, which would allow train travel at 30 m.p.h. The portions of the track which are passable south of Corinth are now just Class 1 with a speed limit of 15 m.p.h., Welz said.

Upper Hudson River Railroad is planning a series of excursions this fall from North Creek south through Warren County. Two trips are scheduled — one each on Sept. 30 and Oct. 7 — to go from North Creek to Thousand Acres Ranch in Stony Creek, and another run is slated to go from North Creek to the Hadley station platform on Oct. 17.

Riegel and Welz said they'd need a minimum of 45 reservations to make these runs.

County supervisors expressed frustration Thursday over the fact these trips were conditional, and that UHRR had cut their daily runs in half.

The county is ready to issue a request for proposals for operation of the train service, the role that UHRR now serves, effective beginning in 2010 when their 12-year contract with UHRR expires.

Supervisors have said they are frustrated with the declining ridership of the railway, which they blame on lack of promotion by UHRR. This, in part, has prompted them to open up bidding on the service to other enterprises.

But Riegel contends he had to cut the number of trips this year to cut his financial losses; and that to build ridership, the railway needs real stations, not platforms, and vibrant communities at each stop-off. He said that Warren County hasn't lived up to their agreement to provide the rail stations.

Supervisors blame the federal government for backing away from its commitments a decade ago and beyond to fund the stations.

[Snowballs]

i've been away for awhile and don't know if you saw this.

http://www.poststar.com/articles/2009/09/18/news/local/doc4ab44cb7eba50147653219.txt

looks like the million dollars is for sure. the focus seems to be on industry with tourism riding the coat tails. in this area, we're sure hoping they don't ever wanna bring NYC gabbage up here to burn it. it's their gabbage. let them deal with it in their own backyard and not further pollute the ADK's.

also, i'm leary of any paper plant reopening. they are notorious polluters. i feel it would be a shame if major pollution were to be released from the Corinth IP plant in the future. the Hudson river has suffered enough. below my house, several miles downstream and below several dams, GE dumped tons of PCB's in the river. the clean up fiasco that is now happening is said to be the largest in America's history.:shock: the clam shell buckets that they're digging with spew PCB ladened mud and water out as they dig and the PCB's are getting redistributed. people downstream now face PCB's in their drinking water.

New York has a extremely poor pollution record. remember Love Canal? the same GE plant that polluted the Hudson river with PCB's, used to give away PCB's that the local town there used to dump on the town's dirt alleys and back roads to keep the dust down.:shock:

don't buy property in Fort Edward.

[I:)skiing]

Thanks for the info.....this makes a lot of sense (as opposed to snow train being the only reason)----not saying it makes "sense".

It is kind of funny that the State would give a company 1m gift to get rail to them, to increase the value of the property. I understand economics, you got to spend money to make money. And if this brings jobs to the area...GREAT. Now I would like to see the payoff theory.

Don't think the area would allow trash incineration (though I am not against the technology if the only thing emitted is CO2). Politics would not allow. Our area in Md just "pushed one back 4 more years for study"...which means it's now dead. Lots of county dollars in planning, purchase of site, permits etc....down the tube..."millions". Ours was going to be tiny....compared to what would be needed for NYC trash. I saw a doc on NYC trash....unbelievable. The same 9million folks who would generally say "recycle" and vote for no incinerator in their back yard....making the trash they make. Crazy. On the other side....Incinderation means cheep power (since you get paid to burn their trash, its actually "get paid for" fuel) Cheep power means more money for locals to spend in the economy---not given to major companies who do not respend it locally, and cheep power means--JOBS, as industry needs power. They will move to get it. ALCOA just left Maryland....why ? Long term contract with electric company just ran out....they were going to have to pay "market rate" for power. 500 jobs and lots of local income...gone, which means more lost jobs.

My brother on LI tells me of a Nuke plant that was built and never opened due to local opposition. Yet they burn the lowest grade of oil in an old power plant....with tankers always being parked off the coast. When I visit, I cant help but laugh because every party has a discussion about the cost of electricity. Nuke+ 4cents kwh. Oil + 9cents kwh Wind +15cents Kwh. Nuke sits idle.

To keep the thread going....(for what it is worth) Go Snow Train!

[Snowballs]

more train blues. sure wish smarter people would have planned this. Warren County people are getting tired of financing others whims.


http://www.poststar.com/articles/2009/10/02/opinion/today/doc4ac566d2e4712632007866.txt

nuclear power plants cost effective? haha. the BSers only quote daily operating costs and MAYBE construction costs. they leave out the frickin huge costs of storing radioactive waste for tens of thousands of years!!! tell me, what has man ever constructed that is air tight, will last tens of - make that hundreds of thousands of years and is suitable for radioactive storage ? sometimes they store that crap in 55 gallon drums. crazy. any radioactive storage facility will have to be rebuilt over and over and over again as plutonium, etc has a half life of 45,000 years!!! the stockpile will continue to grow. Astronomical costs and risks! one speck of plutonium is lethal. .04 per kwh turns into 4 million per kwh.

just addressing the idea and NOT the poster.

[I:)skiing]

The link was dead---can you find it or talk about what it said. I searched but could not find anything--10-2-09 I believe was the date.


On the nuke waste---storage is a good argument. Though being an optimist and reading that some of the science is aready looking at using this waste..I feel, for now, that YUMA--if ever re-approved, will be selling the stuff in 50 yrs.

[Snowballs]

Southern tracks are being upgraded. I " think " it's still going to be a slow ride. Some NC residents have told me it's hours to get to NC on the train from 'Toga. Same people also told me even in it's hayday, the Snowtrain really wasn't a big thing as it was shortlived.

Post Star article and some reader's comments.

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/article_c0e39d76-4f21-11df-a71f-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

Sure hope another paper plant doesn't open in Corinth. They are notorius polluters. The one in Glens Falls is horrible. The stretch of river above Glens Falls (and dams) To Corinth is providing " cleaner " drinking water for many thousands. It's even been tapped for drinking water for those living down river of the enormous General Electric PCB dredging cleanup just south of Glens Falls.

This is the largest cleanup in America's history. The first year of cleanup has revealed a much larger contamination area, more concentrated strength and more resuppension of PCP's in the river by the dredging thus rendering down river water systems not useable. It is unbelievable the crap that's in the river from GF on down. Let's not make the upstream Hudson like it's downstream section.

[I:)skiing]

Thanks interesting funniest line.... "dont think we will be getting 1000 tourists from NC a day" Yeah, I would have to agree with that.

[Snowballs]

Alas, perhaps a saving grace for the rail line in general......

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_067c04e8-549c-11df-ab91-001cc4c002e0.html

........Snow Train still way iffy.

[I:)skiing]

Thanks again.


Some positives and negatives this weekend.


Biking trail proposed north of North Creek. I bet I asked 20 locals of what they thought of the biking trail. Many lived on the lines and were out ffor the WW Derby. All I spoke to were in favor. Yeah..


None of the 20 or so I spoke with knew of the proposed Barton Mine use as noted in the most recent story. If that occurs...and I hope it does for the economy etc. The biking trail wold be dead---unless I am missing something.


Went to ride the train to see the finish of the race. $15 dollar train tickets. Ok for me, but my 4 yr old? Yep. They might give my 2 yr old a break. Sorry, dads not dropping 30+. We have ridden the train many times, it was nap time and I just could not justify.

The good.....the ride back from Riperus (sp) for the derby participants..was only $5 bucks. Great deal. Hope many took advantage.


We had a ball this weekend in NC.

[Snowballs]

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_45c717d6-6dc5-11df-b525-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

[I:)skiing]

Funny how much building you can get when you have limited funds....$33,000 vs 1.4 Mil. Granted there was not a land purchase. Goverment contract spending has gone nuts, seems like this economy is moving us back a little.


The best part, and maybe it was mis-quoted. 1000s acres is "looking into the possibility" of granting an easment for the stop.....hello? Isn't this stop for your customer's? I would think they would volunteer labor and supplies and lifetime maintence to the property, once built.

[Snowballs]

I:)skiing...is your pm box functioning? I have some pm's i've been trying to send you that won't go " out "...even tho ones i wrote to others did go out. ???????????????????

[Snowballs]

Some more track improvements........

http://poststar.com/news/local/article_708aae9a-8fc3-11df-8c45-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

May be it's good news. BUT on the other hand................

You have 4 fingers and a thumb! HA!

Hehehe. Ok, but seriously....

There's a move afoot in the Placid area to force a discontinuation of an established Tourist Train there, tear up it's tracks and make a bike path. An actual financial study is being done to see which will bring in more $$$ to that area.

[adkskier]

A bike path will produce more tourist revenue. There are plenty of established bike paths in locations that have completed these economic impact studies. The results are consistent.

The Warren County track improvements will be very useful to any skiers from Corinth who want to spend almost 4 hours to get to North Creek.. FYI...that's a 45 minute car trip!

[I:)skiing]

Thanks Sno--missed this article.


Yep, would not want to spend 7 hrs on a train. Unless I was sleeping.


I hope there are people out there that are smarter than me that have figured this out. My guess is that if a train has not run for 40 yrs..there is an economic reason.


I do wish UHRR luck and sucess. 50 passengers paying 7-28 dollars for a ticket seems like a stretch, but what do I know.
I do know that I wanted to ride the NC train on my last visit...but could not PRY the $45.00 out of my wallet to allow myself and my two (under 5yrold) kids to ride it. We climbed the sand banks at the lumber yard (abandoned) on Peaceful Valley instead. Tossed the clothes in the fire, so mom would not know. That dirt was not coming out! Total cost maybe $15.00. Reality, cost nothing because they were old, small clothes.

While a bike trail would be free, I would pay $45.00 to be able to ride that smooth line "down" with the kids and then have a van bring me back. My kids are young and 10 miles back up hill would be too much. That said, we routinely ride 8 miles along the NCRR trail in Md..2% grade in some areas. But that is 4 miles in and back. Rather go 10 one way.


It would be an awesome trip along the Hudson to ride uninterupted from Tawhaus to Corinth! Maybe my Grandkids will do it some day.

[Snowballs]

Several times today, I was able to hear a train whistle from the beach at Lake Luzerne. The Hadley train trestle is only 3 maybe 4 miles as the crow flies from Wayside beach on Lake Luzerne.

The weather here has been much, much better this summer. No monsoonal rain like last year and plenty hot. Great when you have all these lakes to hit. Water, water everywhere. Maybe global warming will bring a longer summer season to the north country. I'ld be down with that as long as it does not mess with ski season.......

The Northern Lights are supposedly possible to veiw tonight. Still ain't seen no dang moose.

Saw a bunch of turkeys crossing the road by West Mtn today. That ridge is covered with birds. Many times you can see them or their tracks from the lifts there. The fat azz bears haven't been around much. Those suckas steal lots of bird feeders but oddly never raid the garbage cans. One did knock down my chain link fence one night. It was fleeing from my neighbor who went out to walk his dog and have a smoke. My own " ferocious " Morkies never even made a sound. Slackers. Had to have a talk with those two about that one.

Still ain't seen no dang moose. Slackers.

[AdironRider]

Im really not buying that a bike path is going to bring all these dollars rolling into North Creek.

I lived on the cape and rail trail was a kinda cool thing to do when you didnt feel like the beach with the kids, but never once did I ever even hear of someone traveling all the way down there, posting up in hotels, restaurants, etc, just to ride the rail trail.

Bike paths to me are more of a nice touch for locals, not the next leg of the I LOVE NY campaign.

[Snowballs]

You could very well be correct. However bike tourism here is big and growing. But it seems to take a race or an event like this one last week........

http://poststar.com/image_896a8fb6-c7d3-5496-8e67-dfca61c771ea.html

Wonder how Whiteface Downhill Bike Park is doing this year ?

[I:)skiing]

Adironrider:

Would agree that unless there was a "race" or "ride" folks would not travel long distances to ride the proposed trail...example 4 hours.


However, it is not uncommon for folks to drive 1-1.5 hours to get to a bike trail in Maryland. NCRR, in North Baltimore. I would classify this trail as very nice it runs along a 2'0 deep stream and is mostly covered by trees. The Tahaus trail would be in my view 100 times better and could easily attract Albany and Sarasota dayriders....who spend "day money" in town. Maybe not hotels, but lunch, icecream, trinkets etc. When they ride the trail, they see rafters...then decide to spend the night and go rafting, or come back another day. After a few years, they invite friends, who invite friends and it becomes the yearly thing to do. Camp site at town property would increase liquor sales, food sales, train rides. See related story where the town took possession of the river property.