Gold Parking

[adkskier]

So does anyone have any new info on the future of Gold parking? This past weekend would have been a great time to test out the operation, but no gold to be seen!

[Spongeworthy]

So does anyone have any new info on the future of Gold parking? This past weekend would have been a great time to test out the operation, but no gold to be seen!According to Mike Pratt, there will be 200 spaces this ski season, but I didn't ask exactly where they will be.

[I:)skiing]

200 spaces I think anyone can live with. As long as they dont plan on keeping those spaces free on really slow days. Would be quite a bummer to have to walk by 8 rows of empty lot. (guess on 8 rows).

[fujative.]

I was up at the mountain today, they had everything set up for gold parking. Basically it's a bunch of parking barriers with a whole bunch of chain strung between them over the first half of the lot. you have to drive in on the right, around the lot, past the drop off zone, around do the little hut where you pay, and in.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f26/tbattesh/GoldParking.jpg

[adkskier]

The photo above is pretty accurate. They've taken fully half of the available parking in the upper lots. I may shoot a video and post it in a day or two. It looks more like about 400 spaces that 200. This is big time overkill. Probably three to four times as much space as they have reserved at Whiteface. Imagine how far away the "valued pass holders" may need to park on days when the racers move in!
If Gore wants to pull this crap on top of the very high pass prices (compared with major areas in VT), they'd better serve up a lot of amenities soon. This may chase some loyal skiers away.
Worse yet It appears to be set up in such a manner as to make it very difficult to get in and out so that even on slow days or weekdays there will be a real bottleneck to access this reserved area. It doesn't look as simple as just dropping some chains.

[x10003q]

The photo above is pretty accurate. They've taken fully half of the available parking in the upper lots. I may shoot a video and post it in a day or two. It looks more like about 400 spaces that 200. This is big time overkill. Probably three to four times as much space as they have reserved at Whiteface. Imagine how far away the "valued pass holders" may need to park on days when the racers move in!
If Gore wants to pull this crap on top of the very high pass prices (compared with major areas in VT), they'd better serve up a lot of amenities soon. This may chase some loyal skiers away.
Worse yet It appears to be set up in such a manner as to make it very difficult to get in and out so that even on slow days or weekdays there will be a real bottleneck to access this reserved area. It doesn't look as simple as just dropping some chains.

100% correct assessment.

Great to see Gore slowly piss off their public. They have delusions of Vermontitis. Charging for parking and high lift ticket prices does not make you Vermont. Having 95% snowmaking and using 70% of it sucks. Closing up to 50% of the mountain midweek sucks. Not having a webcan sucks. How about borrowing the web cam that ORDA proudly points at its newest winter sports venue - the Conf Center construction site. Gore does not have a web cam but WF has one pointed at a construction site. (If you are curious where the profit from Gore goes, look at that stupid webcam.) I hope there are no lines to get to the free parking on the upper lots. What are the odds that they have this figured out? I am sure they consulted with a traffic engineer. :roll: I cannot wait for weekends of walking by empty parking spaces with my 3.5 year old.

All the reasons I started skiing at Gore are fading away. :x

[Snowballs]

isn't that a whole lot more spaces than they told us it was going to be? i really wonder if a good many of them won't be empty. that plus a bottle neck causing traffic jams is gonna make people mad.

[mattchuck2]

Parking is an important part of a ski area . . .

[nyspnypd]

The photo above is pretty accurate. They've taken fully half of the available parking in the upper lots. I may shoot a video and post it in a day or two. It looks more like about 400 spaces that 200. This is big time overkill. Probably three to four times as much space as they have reserved at Whiteface. Imagine how far away the "valued pass holders" may need to park on days when the racers move in!
If Gore wants to pull this crap on top of the very high pass prices (compared with major areas in VT), they'd better serve up a lot of amenities soon. This may chase some loyal skiers away.
Worse yet It appears to be set up in such a manner as to make it very difficult to get in and out so that even on slow days or weekdays there will be a real bottleneck to access this reserved area. It doesn't look as simple as just dropping some chains.

lol whiteface has a separate lot not taking up any regular parking lot space I think it only holds like 40 or 50 cars maybe 60 if you really squeeze cars in their. This is why I have not skied gore too much over the years and just stayed at whiteface.

[Snowballs]

Gore, being a state area, already has a huge financial advantage over private ski areas. No income tax, no mortgage, no loans for improvements to repay, no real estate/local taxes (?), discounted purchases via the state contracts, no sales tax to pay. these are very, very large savings. there's probably more.

the otherside of the coin.... i don't know if the State contributes to the yearly operating budget, or why given the above they would have to, but next year's NY State budget is 6-8 maybe 10 billion short SO FAR. if Gore does receive yearly dollars from the State, those funds may not be there next year. Hope they save their extra dollars.

California serves well as an example of what's coming. besides them trying to sell some state parks, etc. they raised state colleges tuition 32 percent, SO FAR.

Hope the Ski Bowl has all the funds needed to complete it. i think it does.

Hope Pratt & Co. will be financially prudent.

[fujative.]

that plus a bottle neck causing traffic jams is gonna make people mad.

That was my main concern. From the looks if it, it seems like you have to drive past the dropoff area in order to get to the Gold Parking. Like all the people who are paying to park 10 feet away from the lodge are going to bother spending extra time so they have to a few less feet :roll:. Also proposing a major bottle necking problem for people who are using the dropoff zone and aren't doing Gold Parking. I think it's only about 1 car width wide between the snowbanks and the entrance to the booth where you pay to get into Gold Parking. So then you'll be backed up from the Joey's searching for $10 or waiting to get their change when you're not even going to be in that lot.

On the bright side, it looks like the shuttle bus drivers will be getting some more tips compared to last year.

[Snowballs]

On the bright side, it looks like the shuttle bus drivers will be getting some more tips compared to last year.

That's another issue. how in the heck are the shuttle buses gonna get thru there with any expediency? Or the Tour busses? if they only left that narrow of a passage, then their greed exceeded their smarts. this would need at least a wide 3 lane passage way for the busses to be a comfortable fit. plus you gotta add in pedestrian cross traffic.

it's further complicated by the fact that last year all traffic to that lot had to go to the right and then proceed to the front before entering to park even in the back of that lot. well, some of us, :roll: , said screw that noise, and took the more direct, logical route. ya know, the one used for years! it always worked for me before.

i sure hope this doesn't turn out to be one big cluster........

[adkskier]

They may help the bottleneck a bit by the fact that Golddiggers will pay on the way out. This is yet another part of the plan that makes so much sense...make the parking troll work a lot later to wait out those in the bar! They should charge on the way in and then send the attendant home at 1 or so to minimize payroll costs!

[fujative.]

They may help the bottleneck a bit by the fact that Golddiggers will pay on the way out. This is yet another part of the plan that makes so much sense...make the parking troll work a lot later to wait out those in the bar! They should charge on the way in and then send the attendant home at 1 or so to minimize payroll costs!
Are they actually having them pay on the way out?

[Snowballs]

yea. i heard that too, from Jimmer's friend the janitor you might say. they may be doing it that way so people can get to the slopes faster. JFTJ also told me the hired help isn't too fond of this project and he predicted low collection rates.

[fujative.]

yea. i heard that too, from Jimmer's friend the janitor you might say. they may be doing it that way so people can get to the slopes faster. JFTJ also told me the hired help isn't too fond of this project and he predicted low collection rates.

Is anyone expecting this to turn out well?

[nyspnypd]

yea. i heard that too, from Jimmer's friend the janitor you might say. they may be doing it that way so people can get to the slopes faster. JFTJ also told me the hired help isn't too fond of this project and he predicted low collection rates.

Is anyone expecting this to turn out well?

I am not non of the regulars will pay for this anyway so on the slow days they would be lucky to see one or two cars in that lot lol

[adkskier]

so maybe this becomes the biggest scam on the mountain - we all just park there and wait out the attendant or work out a "deal" with him (wink wink). Maybe this lot will have more than Pratt and his cronies parking in it.

[Danzilla]

Just stay at the bar until everyone is gone. That way you can spend your gold parking money on something useful - beer.

[mattchuck2]

Mmmmm . . . beer . . .

[adkskier]

The bottleneck looks worse than I had imagined. I took a drive up there today. The barriers have a long chain running through them (got bolt cutters?) on the downhill side. This is the side from which we would normally arrive. It appears to be a length of chain that is not intended to be removed. On the uphill side (adjacent to the unloading area), there are openings between the barriers today. If they open the paid parking for free use, it seems as if the only possible ways in will be all the way up at the unloading area or through the attendant's booth. They were wiring up the booth today.

[Snowballs]

:idea: :idea: :idea: We could all park at Harv's and car pool! we'll hire that crazy lady driver who used to drive shuttle for Gore-she don't let nothing stand in her way.....COMIN' THRU!!! I'll spring for the apres ski partay.

[HudsonHiker]

We were at the mountain today to pick up passes and check it out. Gold Parking is about 2/3 of the upper lot. Barricaded with steel sawhorses and chain thru the sawhorses totally around the area. Toll booth is on the far left up across from the side hill. Looks like you would be driving to the right around the lot to the drop off then proceed to the toll to enter and park It seems hard to maintain for the worker guys to plow. I can’t see regular week day folks paying to park there, they’ll just start the day a little annoyed. I don’t usually hike for my turns so I guess this season I just hike abit further.

[Lbtchnlgs]

Too bad for Gore... I PISS GOLD, and it smells too

[adkskier]

Send comments to:

mike@goremountain.com
emily@goremountain.com
Ted Blazer, President of ORDA blazer@orda.org
Jeffery Byrne, Vice President byrne@orda.org

Here is a link to the ORDA Board of Directors http://www.orda.org/newsite/about/pdf/ordaboard.pdf

[rossi]

i havent been up to see it myself but it sounds like if you park in the free zone, do you have to walk all the way around the gold parking area or duck under or step over chains, or is it 100% chained off??

[Hoser]

Stopped by earlier today....its about 1/2 the upper lot, only break in the chains is in the middle, otherwise its duck under or far left or far right openings. The staffed the booth today.......dude told me it was free today, but beginning day one, pony up the $10.

[adkskier]

The fact that they haven't even considered those of us who will be walking and carrying skis on our shoulders just goes to prove how ill conceived and poorly planned this project is. They could at least allow walk through openings between each barrier. They must be paying management too much because clearly whoever "planned" this was smoking crack...and I hear that crack isn't cheap!

[Snowballs]

The fact that they haven't even considered those of us who will be walking and carrying skis on our shoulders just goes to prove how ill conceived and poorly planned this project is. They could at least allow walk through openings between each barrier. They must be paying management too much because clearly whoever "planned" this was smoking crack...and I hear that crack isn't cheap!

Very well put. If they pile plowed snow on the barricades... :shock: ......and we have to walk all the way around the enclosure.... :shock: .....and the shuttle don't run midweek..... :shock: ...... or the shuttles gets stuck in the bottle neck.... :shock:

Hopefully they will have it worked out. :roll:

[adkskier]

Here's the BS from the Gore website:"Parking is available at no cost daily to all guests of Gore Mountain. However, new this year, add convenience to your day with our premier parking option. The closest spots to the Base Area can be purchased for $10 per day, or pre-purchase a 6-pack of reserved spaces for $50. Please note that spaces are obtained on a first-come, first-serve basis and are subject to availability. Premier parking is available on Saturday, Sunday, and holiday periods.

For those who prefer complimentary spaces, take advantage of our shuttles, for friendly service to and from all of our parking lots."

[rossi]

hahahahahahahahahaha complimentary spaces about had me on the floor.

[x10003q]

hahahahahahahahahaha complimentary spaces about had me on the floor.
+1

Nothing like bs double talk. Complimentary? As their customers, where else are we supposed to park? What are our choices?It is so nice for you to offer me parking. Is that what the parking is called when I go to the supermarket or the mall? Maybe they will like it better when I use the "complimentary" parking at another ski area.

Talk about living in a bubble. By the way how is that web cam install coming along?

So to be clear:

Parking: customers wants continued free close parking, mngmnt says FU wait for the shuttle
Web Cam: customers want web cam, mngmnt says FU go to almost any other ski area's web cam
Future predictions about skiing at Gore: customer says FU

[Denison]

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4231/p1010098hr.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/1421/p1010097h.jpg

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4246/p1010095h.jpg

[mattyR]

Wow. Even my wife, the most even-keeled person I know, (and a Gore fanatic since she was a little kid) just got lost her cool after she saw these pics. On NYE/MLK/Pres Day weekends that lot is gonna be gridlock.

If i wanted to walk through a lot full of $10 spots and Escalades with yellow plates, I'd save the gas and ski in my jeans at Hunter.

[rossi]

ahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha. please tell me this is a joke. seriously either they were all blazed out of there mind when they thought of this, or they really wanna piss a lot of ppl off. the $10 parking doesnt bother me as much as the set up does. i would never pay for the parking either way, but give me a break thats just sad. if you are gunna do it, atleast do it right. they had all freaking summer to plan it out and they come up with that. first and foremost they dont have the right parking lot for it. thats a given. the lot just becomes a mess with ppl who dont know how or where to park their cars, and this is just going to add to the problem. secondly, the families who come with kids, or just have a lot to carry and need to drop off there stuff, that wont happen anymore. im sure everyone has been in atleast one train of cars going up the access road; 20 or so strong, thats can turn into absolute chaos for cars going back and forth and ppl who dont know how the system...or lack there of...works. lastly...for now...is those morons didnt care enough to think about the people who oh so fortunate to have their "complimentary parking" to give them atleast easy access through the premier parking lot. hmmm, with a little work this will make a fine addition to my collection of gore emails:) so those are my thoughts as of now.

[Snowballs]

If it blows up on it's first busy day......It's should be posted on YouTube.

[adkskier]

and note the very considerate placement of the limbo chains for those of us hiking in from the complimentary parking. Is it too much to ask that they allow a 2 or 3 foot opening between
the barricades? Searching my memory, I'm confident that this is the largest paid parking lot at a ski area in the northeast. OH...now I get it. Another new claim for marketing. "More premium parking than any other ski area in the northeast!"

[fujative.]

and note the very considerate placement of the limbo chains for those of us hiking in from the complimentary parking. Is it too much to ask that they allow a 2 or 3 foot opening between
the barricades? Searching my memory, I'm confident that this is the largest paid parking lot at a ski area in the northeast. OH...now I get it. Another new claim for marketing. "More premium parking than any other ski area in the northeast!"
Where there are the pedestrian crossing signs there are 3 foot openings for people to get through.

[Jackalope]

What an astonishing mess! Notice to Gore Management: The configuration of the new paid parking area constitutes a dangerous and defective condition, exposing ORDA to potential liability for physical injury or property damage. It is reasonably forseeable that someone is going to suffer property damage or become injured in connection with the several dangerous conditions created by management in erecting and configuring that parking area. Of particular concern are the chains, which even in good light are difficult to see. They will be virtually invisible in blowing snow, fog, or at night, and constitute a hazard to any unsuspecting or distracted motorist who has the misfortune to run into them. Property damage should be the least of management's concerns. Those chains have the potential to tear the roof off a car operating even at low speed, causing serious personal injury or death to its occupants. Pedestrian access to the rear lots is grossly inadequate, and it is forseeable that Gore's valued guests parked in the rear will attempt to either step over or crawl under those chains. A few will in the process become injured, all will be annoyed. Other guests will walk in traffic around the barriers, exposing themselves and drivers to the risks of pedestrian/vehicle collisions, personal injury and property damage. All of this is to say nothing of the damage to Gore's business reputation the paid parking already has and will continue to create. In all, the paid parking is a bad idea so poorly executed it is not only annoying, but dangerous.

[Raymo40]

Went up to pick up my pass today. here is a video of the new parking. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=213oUSZbO-o

[CUskibum]

So if you want free parking, you have to go around the paid lot, past the booth and back down the other side of the lot? That's an actual question, I can imply sarcasm later...

and from the looks of this, the new traffic pattern sucks. I'm going to be pissed if I have to wait in that mess after getting stuck behind a yellow plater on 28...

[jimmer]

ummmm,dont care,its only on weekends ,haha,just anoyher reason 2 go fishin

[Denison]

It looks like whole setup takes space of about 50 cars :x

[luv2cruz]

I was just at Gore's Facebook they have been deleteing coments about this. I think this can only turn out bad. Checked it out on friday couldn't believe how bad and disorganized it looks already.
The whole set up is an eye sore. Hey Jimmer hears an idea lets be like the Gloversville gang and buy non-holidays and get a pass for weekends and holidays at Hickory.

[Jon951]

Sounds like the making of a VISA commercial on the way. Does Gore take American Express?

$10 bucks...no big deal for the "unlimited" budget schmucks. Real skiers and riders....up in arms no doubt.

Perhaps Gore's name should be changed to Deer Valley..sounds like its heading this way. What next?...full service valet parking, including equipment tune and personal chef?

Give me a break

[Denison]

"Great Wall of Chain" as one put it in Facebook comment

[mattchuck2]

I think that there's a lot of room in the parking lot . . .

[Denison]

My hope that "Gold" lot will stay half empty, thus won't pay for itself and will be demolished by mid season.

What I'm most angry about is loss of parking spaces due to setup. On those busy days 50 to 100 cars less on the lot means a much longer walk from access road.

[adkskier]

Looks like closer to 400 spaces than 50

[Denison]

Looks like closer to 400 spaces than 50

I assume that Gold lot will be full on really busy days, and 50..100 spaces are lost to steel sawhorses and chain...

[adkskier]

OK- gotcha. I thought that you were suggesting that the entire lot was just 50-100 spaces. I agree that the barriers take up additional space.

[adkskier]

How about putting black ribbons across our season passes as a sign of protest?

[Snowballs]

hehehe.^^^

I kinda think it's going to empty alot which will at least partially kill the beast.

[adkskier]

Check out the Gore FaceBook page. Look at the "discussion" area. Emily is now engaging in discussion of the merits of premium parking. Surf on over and share your thoughts! She seems to be losing the debate 4-0 so far!

[ka2kci]

I talked to management at Gore and they told me that Gold parking will only be used when the shuttles are in service. To me that means that maybe on weekdays, they won't be collecting the $10. If I assume that they do use the Gold parking on every weekend and every holiday, and that 200 people are lame enough to pony up the 10 bucks on each of these days, then the maximum revenue that I would project that they could realize is $92,000 per year. (200 spaces @ $10 per day times 46 possible days). They coud easily save this amount per year by eliminating one management job if you include the salary and fringe benefits.

Also, I wonder what the increased costs are for the additional use of the shuttles? When you compute salaries, fringe, gas, equipment repairs and wear and tear on the vehicles, I bet that amount would easily exceed $92,000. I predict that they will succeed in only pissing off the regular customers while the people that have excess cash and only ski occassionally will rave about this fiasco.

Also mentioned before is the liability of having chains across the parking lot. I have witnessed many people driving into the ropes that they string up to line up the cars in the parking lots on days with blowing snow and limited visibility. Running into a chain will certainly do a lot more damage to cars and people than the ropes do. They will have one hell of a lawsuit when this happens. Makes me want to call 1-800 LAWYER to alert them to possible suits so that they can cash in on this debacle. When asked by a judge and jury as to why they put the chains up, their only reply can be "for business considerations".

[Spongeworthy]

Check out the Gore FaceBook page. Look at the "discussion" area. Emily is now engaging in discussion of the merits of premium parking. Surf on over and share your thoughts! She seems to be losing the debate 4-0 so far!Are you sure that it's Emily responding on Facebook?

[Spongeworthy]

I would project that they could realize is $92,000 per year. (200 spaces @ $10 per day times 46 possible days). They could easily save this amount per year by eliminating one management job if you include the salary and fringe benefits.I think your equation would require eliminating TWO management jobs. Nobody is getting rich working for the State of NY, and especially ORDA. The State work force is stretched thin everywhere (except the Legislature, which grabs all the money it can for itself and otherwise spends money it doesn't have).


Also mentioned before is the liability of having chains across the parking lot. . . . They will have one hell of a lawsuit when this happens. . . . When asked by a judge and jury as to why they put the chains up, their only reply can be "for business considerations".First of all, no jury in lawsuits against Gore, just a judge. Second, Gore gets free legal representation from the the Attorney General's office; they may get some good defense strategies from this forum, like don't say they did it "for business considerations" :shock: (whether they respond here or not, as opposed to Facebook, you KNOW that Gore is reading this forum). I just don't see a lawsuit about the chains being a problem.

[evantrentful]

"Great Wall of Chain" as one put it in Facebook comment

haha that was me. I just saw your pictures, holycrap that lot is huggggeeeee. All the barricades and chain remind me of some soviet era border crossing

[Danzilla]

If you are a gold parking hater please post your thoughts on the Gore Mountain Wall on Facebook. There are over 1700 "fans" of Gore on Facebook - probably a few more people than frequent this site:). Social networks are a great way to engage companies and even if they continue to delete anti-parking posts we will be heard by more of the masses. I think calling out Gore Management in a public forum is much more effective than just emailing them with your thoughts.

I don't just think the parking idea is bad for me - I think it is bad for the mountain. Bad for publicity, bad for good will, bad for first time visitors. Bad bad bad.

Get out there and protest.

[adkskier]

Link to Gore's Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/North-Creek-NY/Gore-Mountain/119555222608#/topic.php?uid=119555222608&topic=11391

I still question the capacity of the lot. If it was 1/4 to 1/3 the size, it would be a non-issue. It would be a fair business experiment that would not impact the traffic pattern and the pedestrian (that's those of us valued guests who use the "complimentary" parking) access. I wonder if anyone consulted the local fire chief about access. I also wonder if they will control parking well enough to maintain access for ambulances. We've all seen the Escalades, Hummers and Tahoes squeezed on the end of the rows just before the transition back to the access road. If it's tight for cars, just imagine what it's like for those guys trying to get ambulances in and out during the holidays.

[Jon951]

It is a shame when the first thing one will think on the way to take their first morning leak is the parking situation at the mountain, rather than having a great day of skiing/riding. Hopefully the reconfig will be shorted lived and back on the regular.

[I:)skiing]

I think paid parking is ok
I think $10 is a fair price---should be less if you have a full season pass or be able to purchase gold parking as part of the package.
I think there was no deep thought into the process or workflow of this paid parking.

The great wall of chain is just UGLY---hey! Lets go a a wonderful ski area, in the middle of the ADK park, Nature at its finest.....UGGGH we are in prison.

Marketing: Time to speak up and get into the Mountain Manager's office. Do not leave until there is a workable, nice, pleasent alternative.

Need an example? Go to any college football stadium. No chains, no spaces no nothing...but a guy who stands there either collecting cash or looking at your windshield.

Remember your cusotmer's are mostly all very good, honest people. Trust them and they will come back. The attendant will only have to deal with one or two block heads a weekend. Don't argue, let them park and then tow 'em. Make an extra $300 or so on them and keep the local tow guy in business.


FUN: Guessing there is at least 2000 feet of chain. At 3.00 per lf, that is $6000.

The airport TSA could have come up with a better idea. And that is no compliment.

[Lbtchnlgs]

I think paid parking is ok
I think $10 is a fair price---should be less if you have a full season pass or be able to purchase gold parking as part of the package.
I think there was no deep thought into the process or workflow of this paid parking.

The great wall of chain is just UGLY---hey! Lets go a a wonderful ski area, in the middle of the ADK park, Nature at its finest.....UGGGH we are in prison.

Marketing: Time to speak up and get into the Mountain Manager's office. Do not leave until there is a workable, nice, pleasent alternative.

Need an example? Go to any college football stadium. No chains, no spaces no nothing...but a guy who stands there either collecting cash or looking at your windshield.

Remember your cusotmer's are mostly all very good, honest people. Trust them and they will come back. The attendant will only have to deal with one or two block heads a weekend. Don't argue, let them park and then tow 'em. Make an extra $300 or so on them and keep the local tow guy in business.


FUN: Guessing there is at least 2000 feet of chain. At 3.00 per lf, that is $6000.

The airport TSA could have come up with a better idea. And that is no compliment.

[jimmer]

I think paid parking is ok
I think $10 is a fair price---should be less if you have a full season pass or be able to purchase gold parking as part of the package.
I think there was no deep thought into the process or workflow of this paid parking.

The great wall of chain is just UGLY---hey! Lets go a a wonderful ski area, in the middle of the ADK park, Nature at its finest.....UGGGH we are in prison.

Marketing: Time to speak up and get into the Mountain Manager's office. Do not leave until there is a workable, nice, pleasent alternative.

Need an example? Go to any college football stadium. No chains, no spaces no nothing...but a guy who stands there either collecting cash or looking at your windshield.

Remember your cusotmer's are mostly all very good, honest people. Trust them and they will come back. The attendant will only have to deal with one or two block heads a weekend. Don't argue, let them park and then tow 'em. Make an extra $300 or so on them and keep the local tow guy in business.


FUN: Guessing there is at least 2000 feet of chain. At 3.00 per lf, that is $6000.

The airport TSA could have come up with a better idea. And that is no compliment.I think paid parking is ok
I think $10 is a fair price ,,,,,,,, u suck

[x10003q]

Paid parking at Gore is a joke. If you really want to be like the fancy areas in Vermont how about getting some indoor bathrooms up on the mountain? You are 400 acres now and the Saddle Lodge just doesn't cut it. How about another food choice on the mountain? Again, the Saddle Lodge just isn't enough. I stay about a mile away on the weekends. This has allowed me to park close enough so I do not have to drop off my wife and kids. Now, unless I get to the mountain at 7:30am I am sure I will be in the lower lots. If the paid parking becomes a permanent situation at Gore there will be no reason for me to stay 1 mile away.

Gore is a "rustic" mountain. The lift ticket no longer reflects the lack of amenities. For a few $ more in Vermont I can have some indoor plumbing on the mountain. I can be slope side and not have to worry about parking. I can ski midweek on the entire mountain. I can count on all snowmaking trails to be covered with snow (how long until the North Side opens up this year?).

But who cares about me. Its just one less car to worry about clogging up those complimentary lots.

So far this parking thing looks real popular.

[I:)skiing]

Regarding negative comments....

I am a realist. As prior posts established...I suggested 200 paid spaces...not the whole front lot. If people want to pay to park..let them. Gore is in business to make money. This is America. They own the land, they can charge to use it. If 200 people pay and that area is full, expand it.

As I noted, there should be no paid parking on slow days or off season. It would be crazy to make customers walk or ride the bus through empty spots.


Gore: By all means possible:

Don't make people dropping off kids/family have to sit in traffic. The minute that happens...stop this foolishness.

THEN, if Gore has more money, they can open more terrain earlier, put running water toilets on slope, etc. I consider parking fees a tax...that I can opt not to pay. Let others pay it and we can reap the benefits....

[Jackalope]

Note to I:skiing--Gore does NOT own any of the land upon which the operation rests. All of the land is owned by the people of the State of New York, and is used by ORDA only with permission of its owners, the People, through various enactments and agreements with the State of New York. I wonder if ORDA's agreements with the State allow them to rent parking places. I'm no expert, but aren't there some provisions somewhere in the New York laws or maybe the State constitution that forbids the sale or lease of State land inside the Park? Just because Gore managers act like they own the place doesn't mean they do.

[jimmer]

we have a little saying when gore screws up,,,gored again=f****d again,,simple yes.but we use it alot...

[Spongeworthy]

Note to I:skiing--Gore does NOT own any of the land upon which the operation rests. All of the land is owned by the people of the State of New York, and is used by ORDA only with permission of its owners, the People, through various enactments and agreements with the State of New York. I wonder if ORDA's agreements with the State allow them to rent parking places. I'm no expert, but aren't there some provisions somewhere in the New York laws or maybe the State constitution that forbids the sale or lease of State land inside the Park? Just because Gore managers act like they own the place doesn't mean they do.You're absolutely right -- we own that land (designated as Forest Preserve). But I think that Gore has the right to charge for parking. The Slutskys from Hunter Mountain sued years ago claiming that allowing ORDA to run a ski area was a lease in violation of the state constitution. The Slutskys lost, so I guess that means that Gore can can do anything short of allowing hunting or selling their trees as firewood (please correct me if I'm wrong about this).

Gore might be doing this because they have to. I work for the state and we've been told to conserve paper and rubber bands, because they aren't buying any more of those supplies. I wonder if toilet paper is next :shock:

Let's see if the spaces get used. If a lot of the space remains empty every weekend, I would hope that they'd abandon or reduce their plan.

OTOH, if those spaces are filled with NJ and CT plates, I'll be pissed :evil:

[Denison]

OTOH, if those spaces are filled with NJ and CT plates, I'll be pissed :evil:

Oh common, C.L.I.T.S. don't ski here and stop hating on NJ folk: some of us work and pay taxes in NY

[I:)skiing]

land upon which the operation rests. All of the land is owned by the people of the State of New York, and is used by ORDA only with permission of its owners, the People,


Thanks, I did not know this info and if true, changes the whole argument: Given the current debt of NY, I might think the majority of NYers, who do not ski, would want to collect all the money they can from those willing to freely shell it out in the form of parking up close. I thank God the People of NY do not know the potential or wish to charge to park on their more distant lots.

As for hating CT and NJ for parking there....I have a different take. Let them! If they want to pay...increase the fee. I would feel worse if the pay lot was filled with locals or NYers....more taxing of their own citizens who already, as above, own the land.

Pay for parking will only disappear if people do not pay. I repeat that I hope they pay...as Gore will ultimately have more money to invest in the mountain.

We will see, but I honestly do not believe this is going to be a sucess. 100-200 spaces, maybe. Not the section they carved out.
If they find they are not filling the lot...maybe they will start letting season pass holders park there FREE :roll: I offer this as a non-seaon pass holder.

I will be riding the bus or dropping off the kids and jogging up the hill. The positive side of me...says stretching/warming up.


Prediction: Bet you will start seeing the number of handicap spots increase. Where do they park? Gore, start expanding it.

[adkskier]

Gore operates in a classification of "intensive use area" rather than forest preserve. The decision to charge is solely ORDA's right. The big outstanding question is whether management will pay attention to the comments and make changes to make this mess less bad or just dig in their heals in the name of "trial season" and wait until they've managed to lose customers. One holiday week will influence a lot of visitors to this system and will impact the willingness of these visitors to return.
Reduce capacity instead of leaving spaces empty.
Create pedestrian passage ways.

[Snowballs]

I wonder if any of this is because of the ORDA boys in Placid are pushing it on Gore. While i have no direct evidence, some on here have posted before something to the effect that ORDA uses Gore's money for it's Placid designs.

It really seems ill conceived. like the others said, it would be different if they hadn't taken such a large area.

[jimmer]

i dont think thell have a hard time filling the spaces,weekend crowds r a nitemare,and the people that go on these days will pay,whats another 10 bucks,sure beets parking in the back lots,or on the acess road,but for guys like me i wont pay,they get enuff of my money,so screw em,wish i bought a non holiday pass now,think thell give me sum money back if i down grade,i no they take it if u wanna up grade.....so does any body like too ice fish on the weekends,i know a great spot....

[adkskier]

The paid parking lot would make a really nice ice skating area if someone flooded it.

[x10003q]

The best part is watching their "viral advertising" get loaded up with complaints and bitchfest discussions about the parking and the lack of web cams. This board reaches the diehards. Facebook probably reaches a much wider group of skiers/sliders.
They are constantly deleting messages from the Gore wall. Maybe they will get the hint about the web cam. The parking is either going to work or not work.

[Spongeworthy]

I didn't bother trying to go to the mountain in order to ski the White Ribbon of Death.

So . . . were they implementing the new parking system? If so, how was it?

[Denison]

it was free today so i parked there, one fourth is designated for disabled drivers, i wonder if they are required to pay $10

[Jon951]

" White Ribbon of Death" Loved the term

In my circles we call it " The Bacon Strip"

Nice

[highpeaksdrifter]

At WF there is paid parking and it is a Zero issue to everybody I know that skis/rides there and it’s another revenue stream for ORDA.

All I’m sayin is you guys should give this paid parking thing a chance. Gore has had a lot of great improvements the last few years, with more to come. The money has to come from somewhere and every little bit helps.

[Lbtchnlgs]

I seem to have lost complete care about paid parking now that there's snow to be had.

Another negative discussion that has helped us crutch thru the the all to long autumn warmth

[I:)skiing]

it was free today so i parked there, one fourth is designated for disabled drivers, i wonder if they are required to pay $10


Ding, ding, ding....I win prediction of the month. 2-3 post ago I predicted mass increase in disabled drivers with paid parking.

Now,,,,put up a video camera to watch the 'disabled' drivers carry 3 pr of skis, two kids and a back pack...from his space up to the lodge. Rather than jumping on a bus from the back lot. I would rather have a web cam of this than the snow....if we had to choose.

[Denison]

At WF there is paid parking and it is a Zero issue to everybody I know that skis/rides there and it’s another revenue stream for ORDA.

All I’m sayin is you guys should give this paid parking thing a chance. Gore has had a lot of great improvements the last few years, with more to come. The money has to come from somewhere and every little bit helps.

The one at Whiteface is very much different to what was presented by Gore management.

Paid lot at Whiteface is small(50 cars?), really close (as oppose to all other lots) has natural entrance and no gates needed. No one complained and I'm guilty of using it few times. You may ski all season long and not even realize there is a paid lot.

[fujative.]

I think I counted 24 cars in the lot today! Making good money gore mountain :roll:

[CUskibum]

How many of them had yellow plates?

[Hoser]

All least half when I walked through it (both ways)

[mattyR]

I think I counted 24 as well on Saturday, but as I walked through to get to my "complimentary" parking spot, I noticed that at least 12 of the cars in that lot were actually handicapped cars, so the number of actual paid parking spots was probably a lot less.

Still, the view from the gondola made that lot look VERY empty. I heard a lot of complaints about it on the lifts and in the lodge...

[adkskier]

After skiing both days and riding the gondola too many times, it's clear that the majority of skiers are very unhappy with the parking situation. The topic of the paid parking debacle was raised all but one gondola ride with strangers. I was just sitting back listening. Skiers arriving mid morning parked so far away that they had to ride the shuttle and waited for the shuttle. Imagine what it will be like during the holidays and on race days.

[Denison]

on Sunday there were probably less then 10 paid customers.

[x10003q]

on Sunday there were probably less then 10 paid customers.

This is the only way to reduce or eliminate the paid parking. I am sure the Lake Placid(ORDA) Board was all for paid parking at Gore. They need all the money Gore generates to run the money losing venues in LP.

[Snowballs]

We should picket the paid parking. I already know what I'll put on my sign.........

Mr. Gore-back-off,
Tear This Wall Down!

nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

[adkskier]

The ORDA Board of Directors meets tomorror (Tuesday 12/15) at 10:30. The meeting can be viewed live on-line at http://www.orda.org/newsite/about/meetings.php
An archived copy will show up some time after the meeting. It might be interesting to listen in to find out if the board mentions the Gore situation. I'll have to wait for the archive copy or someone else's report.

[CUskibum]

All least half when I walked through it (both ways)

This meeting of ORDA's board of directors couldn't come at a better time. I think I have another way for Gore to get money instead of charging for parking. They can use the following letter as long as they give me credit for the idea.

Dear New Jersey,

On behalf of skibums in Upstate New York, we do not appreciate that Gore Mountain has started to charge for parking. We believe that Gore has sold out to a different crowd, the type of crowd that believes skiing comes secondary to the other plush things the North Creek Area offers. Members of this crowd may fall into the category of skier that can be classified as guaranteed accident prone on every run, or in short, G.A.P.E.R. There is still a community of die-hard skiers that feels alienated by these decisions, not just around Gore, but in Upstate New York as a whole.
As a citizen of Upstate New York, and a college student in the North Country, i have seen many people react negatively to attempts these money-grabbing efforts while we have seen the Adirondacks taken over by SUV's with yellow plates. After further consideration, I believe I have found a solution that may suit some of the involved parties. The best course of action would be to annex the Gore Mountain and the town of North Creek to the State of New Jersey. This can be added to the town of Lake George, NJ, since it has already been taken over by yellow platers. The yellow platers have already taken over the Mountains in the Catskills, and I would like to offer this as a peace offering, since this plague of yellow platers has kept moving farther North. This way, Gore can Charge whatever it wants for parking, the local gas stations can become full service, and everyone can pump Springsteen and Bon Jovi as loud as they please. Jet fans will even be able to enjoy a nice weekend away from the swamp!
As one of the terms of this deal, Whiteface, Lake Placid and the High Peaks will remain exclusively in the hands of the loyal New Yorkers that enjoy all they have to offer. We reserve the right to taunt and make fun of anyone with a yellow license plate that drives north of exit 23 of the northway. We hoped it wouldn't come to this, but desperate times call for desperate measures. So enjoy your mountain, and good luck. I hope you earn all you can from paid parking.

Sincerely,

CUSkibum

P.S. Governor Paterson needs some money. Remember, we didn't make fun of your gay governor as much as those guys from Massachusetts, so you kind of owe us one.

[CUskibum]

Also, If you took that seriously, there's probably something wrong with you. I hate the idea of paying for parking, and I hate the idea dropping $10 on lunch. I'll be the only person on the deck with an MSR whisperlite warming up soup I brought from home.

[Snowballs]

I hate the idea dropping $10 on lunch. I'll be the only person on the deck with an MSR whisperlite warming up soup I brought from home.

That's me too. i'm the guy pulling out a sandwich on lift or if it's really cold the summit warming hut. Too cheap to buy lunch and to eager to rip to go inside. lol

That Dear New Jersey letter was classic. Very funny.

Yellow Platers. lmao

[I:)skiing]

As stated the only way this will stop is lack of use. Sadly I think mgmt will have a plan to let it run till the major holidays are over and the toUrists come in droves. Too early to shut it down yet.
Sad news on waiting on the van. If you look at it the van and a distant lot could be faster. But you got to have a van show up timely.

Gore here is a way to fix the problem. Tell families to drive up and drop the stuff and kids/spouse off, the spouse 2 can drive away and ride the van alone. This will cut down on gaper family unloading the car, laoding the van and the unloading. Must have easy access and ski/board racks down at the lot to work.

Or. Split the vans. Family/gaper and singles/expeerienced. The driver just stopps by the gaper family and says. Another van is coming. Get your stuff ready

[Snowballs]

[quote="CUskibum"Members of this crowd may fall into the category of skier that can be classified as guaranteed accident prone on every run, or in short, G.A.P.E.R. [/quote]

Wait, are we talking about the yellow platers or the busholes?

[SIAWOL]

As stated the only way this will stop is lack of use.

I don't buy it. Only way to shut it down is for the operation to cost more money than it's bringing in. Period.

If only 10 cars are using it, then those 10 cars @ $10/each are still offsetting the labor required to man the booth for the day. Sure--there are additional costs involved with running the buses harder to shuttle people back and forth, but what are the odds that Gore/ORDA even knows what that cost is? It needs to be broken down to a shuttle cost per rider (driver labor, fuel, bus maintenance, asset depreciation, etc.)...And then compare that number to what they're bringing in for paid parking.

My gut tells me that Gore is just looking at any cars ponying up the $10 is just a windfall, so might as well keep it going. Sure you've got some unhappy people, but they'll get used to it--like they always do. When push comes to shove, how many of us are REALLY going to change our skiing location because of it? We talk a good game at times, but ultimately people can vote with their feet. And I don't see more footprints going down the hill than I see coming up it....

Until such time as Gore actually does a cost/benefit analysis on the parking, we all just need to keep complaining---in person is always better. It's possible someone will decide the aggravation isn't worth it! Squeaky bullwheel gets the grease!

[Spongeworthy]

I hate to say this, but if I spent too much time at Laura's or barVino the night before a big holiday weekend and get a late start, I just might pay the $10 instead of parking way down the access road. I'll make that up by keeping a cooler full of beer in the car (which won't be far away since I'm in a Gold Parking space) and not paying $6.50 a beer at the Tannery. Two beers and I'm ahead of the game -- and Gore loses (or Centerplate loses, who cares) because I'd probably end up having more than two beers and maybe buying their food that day.

Maybe this will teach me the discipline I need to get up earlier no matter what I was doing the night before, pack a cooler with food and beer, and limit my time in the Tannery (which won't be easy, because I love the Tannery). If I do that, I'll still park close enough in a FREE space and maybe save some money this season.

Maybe, just maybe, Gore is teaching me how to keep more of my money in my pocket. Thanks Gore, I couldn't have done that without you :lol:

[fujative.]

guaranteed accident prone on every run, or in short, G.A.P.E.R.

Is that really where it came from?! I'm astonished.

[CUskibum]

[quote="CUskibum"Members of this crowd may fall into the category of skier that can be classified as guaranteed accident prone on every run, or in short, G.A.P.E.R.

Wait, are we talking about the yellow platers or the busholes?[/quote]

That was directed at the yellow platers. What do you mean by busholes? It's not defined on Urban Dictionary so I'm not sure what it means.

[Snowballs]

[quote="CUskibum"Members of this crowd may fall into the category of skier that can be classified as guaranteed accident prone on every run, or in short, G.A.P.E.R.

Wait, are we talking about the yellow platers or the busholes?

That was directed at the yellow platers. What do you mean by busholes? It's not defined on Urban Dictionary so I'm not sure what it means.[/quote]

hehehe. i was bustin a funny. Ok, Busholes is a derivative of a-holes. Busholes arrive at the mtn on a bus, typically on holiday periods, then firmly implant their head where the Sun don't shine before going to the mtn where they reek havoc on the locals with their careless, inept ways. They are completely void of mtn manners and protocol. Last year while standing in the cattle lines of the ADK Express, one cut right across/thru the many lines, sawing his way across the tops of people's skis. He stopped when he got to me cuz i gave him the look and I told him " I will knock you down ". They make you wanna flip your pole over and deliver a hard " WAKE UP! " whack, which is not beyond me.

Busholes! Ever experience them?

[Harvey44]

The New Jersey hate is really bringing me down. I guess it's how the indians felt when the whiteman came.

* * *

I was up this weekend, and I had a chance to see the new parking setup in use.

My two cents ended up fairly long winded so I put it here:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2008/12/gold-parking.html

A cookie for real if you make it all the way to the end.

[Denison]

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2008/12/gold-parking.html

A cookie for real if you make it all the way to the end.

Well said, Harvey. I earned my cookie. 8)

[Adk Keith]

The New Jersey hate is really bringing me down. I guess it's how the indians felt when the whiteman came

Some People bring it with them,
You leave it home.

As such, You get an honorary North River License Plate. :wink:

[adkskier]

If you listen to the ORDA Board meeting, skip ahead past the Lake Placid hype to minute 21 for Pratt's report about Gore. Lots of good stuff until he reports that he has received lots of comments from skiers who don't like the paid parking, but many comments from others who asked "why didn't you do this sooner?" I wonder about his definition of "many"! Perhaps those comments came from the "many" skiers who used the paid lot last weekend!!

[Spongeworthy]

If you listen to the ORDA Board meeting, skip ahead past the Lake Placid hype to minute 21 for Pratt's report about Gore. Lots of good stuff until he reports that he has received lots of comments from skiers who don't like the paid parking, but many comments from others who asked "why didn't you do this sooner?" I wonder about his definition of "many"! Perhaps those comments came from the "many" skiers who used the paid lot last weekend!!Just like the "many" people who sat in the most expensive seats at the new Yankee Stadium. You know, where you can see all those empty seats behind home plate at every Yankees game.

This is total B.S. Someone should make a request under NY's Freedom of Information Law for ALL of the comments Gore has received on the paid parking. Let's see -- negative comments in the thousands. Now counting positive comments -- one . . . two . . . many . . . STOP! :evil:

[TomCat]

I could see someone liking gold parking if they show up late and have to park half way down the access road. It would be worth $10.00 to avoid that. Of course if the mountain is crowded enough to warrant parking half way down the access road, gold parking will likely be filled too.

tom

[DJG21]

I could see someone liking gold parking if they show up late and have to park half way down the access road. It would be worth $10.00 to avoid that. Of course if the mountain is crowded enough to warrant parking half way down the access road, gold parking will likely be filled too.

tom

I've got no problem with some paid parking so long as there is ample relatively close-by parking for those not wanting to pay. There are times when my schedule does not allow me to ski for more than an couple hours, and I wouldn't mind the option of paying for the luxury of skiing an extra couple of extra runs rather than hiking or taking the shuttle back and forth to my car. I don't imagine that I'd do it much, but the option is there.

Moreover, havig some paid parking might encourage carpooling. I could see chipping in a couple of bucks to park close and avoid the hassle of hiking from the back lots or access road to the base lodge. If carpooling is encouraged and there are fewer cars in the lot, that means that it will be easier to find parking closer to the hill.

I guess what I'm saying is who cares so long as ample unpaid parking remains available?

[I:)skiing]

In ski or skiing magizine this month...a comment came in the editorial page about their take on vail. The writer said the magizine writer lied about "free parking" on some named street. Bottom line, they leared it was only free when EVERY paid lot ($25) was full. Then the local police would not ticket you. Park there when there is available paid parking....big fine.


I definitely understand that this can be a windfall and even if there were low profits it could remain. But the folks in marketing have to be watching carefully. These lots have to be full or the public walking or riding by will become ill. With sites like the most recent Facebook....they will have to relent. They must have a full time employee cleaning the site up. I am sure that was totally unforeseen. THis will also improve snow forecasts.

[adkskier]

I've paid to park at Vail and I haven't complained (much). Vail just offers so much more...and the paid parking is in an enclosed and well maintained parking garage. They just don't have any real estate for open parking. In fact, Vail doesn't really have a base lodge. There is a village of shops and restaurants. Most people boot up in a ski shop and use a coin-op locker or check room to store their spare clothing and gear.

[CUskibum]

I went to Vail last year. I think there is free parking on both ends, Vail Village and Lionshead. But you have to ride a shuttle over to the base of the village. I think the shuttle is free. But if you're going to hang around afterwards, it makes sense to park in a garage...Thats why I don't like Vail. They WILL get all the money in your pocket because all the free alternatives are sooooooo bad. They just cater to a different clientele. This is exactly what Gore is trying to do...

Of the places I have been to out west, Vail, Copper, Beaver Creek and Deer Valley have a paid parking option.

I'm pretty sure that Snowbird, Alta, Brighton, Solitude, and A-Basin don't have paid parking. I don't think Keystone has it either.

[Lbtchnlgs]

I've paid to park at Vail and I haven't complained (much). Vail just offers so much more...and the paid parking is in an enclosed and well maintained parking garage. They just don't have any real estate for open parking. In fact, Vail doesn't really have a base lodge. There is a village of shops and restaurants. Most people boot up in a ski shop and use a coin-op locker or check room to store their spare clothing and gear.

Vails parking sucks big time. Though after a few visits you find some secret free stashes not too far from the lift. To be honest (I'm NOT accepting Gore's paid parking) but spending time out there I have accepted taking shuttles (free shuttles), but also out there they have real buses with 2 exits and the mountains are way mo' betta so it all works out

[ka2kci]

Today they had a total of ten cars in the Gold Parking lot. At least five of them were handicapped people who didn't have to pay the ten bucks. So Gore made a total profit of $50 which is about the price of one discount lift ticket. Gore management fails to realize that they have made a huge marketing mistake by making $50 and pissing off all of the skiers that had to either walk or take the shuttle past the empty gold lot.

Not only are the customers pissed off. Every mountain employee that I talked to today either refused to comment (they have been warned by management) or voiced their displeasure with the new policy as well. Especially the guys who work ing the parking lot who are taking the brunt of the wrath of the customers. In order to properly plow this new lot, they have to use a front end loader to lift the heavy barricades and move them so that the snow banks don't go over the top of them. When you figure the increased labor costs in plowing the lot, the additional costs of having three more busses making the rounds, the gas, wear and tear and the personnel costs, I fail to see how this can help Gore's bottom line. Managment still instists that many customers are pleased with this new policy.

It time that they woke up and realize that they will ultimately lose customers due to this debacle. They have lost many available parking spots due to this policy and on really crowded days, they need all of the parking spots that they can get. When you suggest that they try valet parking, or to maybe add an additional lot behind the lodge near the bar, you are met with disdain. They really know how to piss of the regulars who buy passes and spend their money in the North Creek area. I wonder if this policy will ever be reconsidered?

[jimmer]

very nice points made,you should voice your opinons on there face book page,but be careful how u say it or youll b banned,i was for making my comments

[Snowballs]

It was very striking to see the back half of the upper lot absolutely packed with cars and the front half for Gold Parking Lot wide friggin open......like you would hear crickets there. As big as it is, those dozen or so cars looked like they weren't even there. A football field size empty area. What a resounding defeat.

[adkskier]

5 late arrivals parked there today instead of parking in the lower lot. Hmmm.....if paid parking wasn't there no one would have needed to park in the lower lot. On the positive side, there will always be plenty of room to land a medevac chopper and it will be front and center right where the manager doesn't want the injury activity! Employees have been clearly warned to steer clear of the topic.

[Hoser]

Up to 7 cars when I left today, almost enough revenue to pay for one of the yellow pedastrian signs by the breaks in the wall (which again would not be needed if.....)

[jimmer]

its great to see the regulars not taking advantage of this,but im thinking the mt is really hopeing for tourist season too get here,so that mayb then they can reap of the benifits af this fiasco,going to be interesting for sure...

[GoofyRider]

its great to see the regulars not taking advantage of this,but im thinking the mt is really hopeing for tourist season too get here,so that mayb then they can reap of the benifits af this fiasco,going to be interesting for sure...

I think they are definitely counting on the tourist factor.. it's the only thing that makes sense. They will make money those few weekends.. hard to say if that offsets the rest of the year. why not start with half to a third this size lot and see what happens instead of the whole front...


8:15am

http://s3.postimage.org/vGoD9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqvGoD9)



10:00am

http://s4.postimage.org/jhmnJ.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVjhmnJ)




anyone know this guy?

http://s2.postimage.org/1f18R0.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Ts1f18R0)

[x10003q]

Those pictures of the empty lot are more striking than saying 10 cars were parked in the $10 lot. Wow.

The $96,000 revenue estimate floating around on this board was based on 46 days at capacity. I am sure this weekend was included. It doesn't look like they are going to get to that number.

[jimmer]

anyone know this guy?

is it a parking attendant, after being buzzed by cars on there way too free parking,

[Snowballs]

Newspaper coverage.

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/article_386d5cd8-ef46-11de-b9bc-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

[Spongeworthy]

Newspaper coverage.

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/article_386d5cd8-ef46-11de-b9bc-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story"I certainly see us evaluating the successes of this," Pratt said about Gore's new program.

Reminds me of what Carter Burke (Paul Reiser) said in"Aliens":

"So I made a decision, and it was... wrong. It was a bad call, Ripley. It was a bad call."

[adkskier]

Every story in the Post Star has an opportunity for discussion on-line. Normally few readers comment. Let's take some of our enthusiasm for this topic over to their website. If the discussion gets lots of activity, it might get a follow-up story in print!

[SnowSnake]

Good idea, the more this story spreads the better. We can't just let Gore sweep this one under the rug they have gone too far this time and something has to give.

[treeski]

We all need to make sure that everyone we meet on the lifts, lodge, bar, parking lot, wherever are asked to support this cause to remove (or at the very least greatly reduce the "premium parking". It's up to us to make sure that Management does not take our mountain away from us!

[Snowballs]

.........." and are throwing snowballs...." Hehehe.

The C 8) 8) L way to bomb people! Merry Christmas Everybody!!!


http://www.saratogian.com/articles/2009/12/24/sports/doc4b32ed3c24a94766839336.txt

[Denison]

On Saturday Gold Lot was empty as usual, how about during this holiday week?

[Snowballs]

That sucker was packed today! Pratt and Co were wearing one glove and moonwalking around to some MJ..." Beat it! Beat it! "

[Denison]

That sucker was packed today! Pratt and Co were wearing one glove and moonwalking around to some MJ..." Beat it! Beat it! "

That sucks, must be the crowd who skies onle few times a year. Extra $50 is nothing for the convenience. What about free parking, how far did it get to?

[Snowballs]

E lot was pretty full. I bet mtn management felt some " relief " that the Gold lot was full. The Empire strikes back.

[Spongeworthy]

I heard the whole place was packed to the rafters. Long lines for everything.

[Denison]

I heard the whole place was packed to the rafters. Long lines for everything.

Oh my, I'm going back skiing day after tomorrow (Wednesday), if I survive this nasty flu I got. :x

Anyone with first hand experience on the subject of crowds?

[Hoser]

Crowds Monday were at the Gondi and Triple. Actually not too bad in the lodge considering what week it is. BUT - the triple was only running half the chairs, the rest in the barn, hence the lines.....12-15 minutes at the triple instead of 6-7 in the afternoon.

WHY?????? This is madness!

[Frostillicus]

Paid Parking was full today. Most plates were out-of-state sprinkled with a couple of j-mokes from Latham.

I snuck out of work and got to the mountain around noon, parked on the end of a row on a LOWER lot, (not in the way of ANYTHING I might add) and upon leaving was greeted with a Big Yellow Slip under my windshield wiper stating:

WARNING
YOU ARE ILLEGALLY PARKED!
DO NOT PARK HERE AGAIN.
A SECOND VIOLATION WILL RESULT IN THIS VEHICLE BEING TOWED AT OWNER'S EXPENSE.
A RECORD HAS BEEN MADE OF THIS WARNING.


GORE MOUNTAIN

Nice... :x

[Snowballs]

The Empire strikes back.

[Frostillicus]

They struck back a lot then. I saw at least 20-30 "Warnings" on other cards too.

[Face4Me]

It seems to me, that management's miscalculation here was taking away something that was previously open to everyone, on a first come, first serve basis, with no preferential treatment given to anyone, and providing that "something" to those who could, and would, be willing to pay a premium for it.

When Whiteface added it's pay parking, it was limited to a lot that was previously closed to the general public anyway. Therefore, when it was converted to a pay lot, there was no real harm felt ... nothing had been taken away.

If Gore had built a new lot, and made this lot pay only, I suspect there would have been minimal reaction to that scenario. Those who were accustomed to getting to the mountain early, and getting the best parking would still have been able to do so, and those who prefer to arrive late, and pay an additional fee to get better parking, would also have been satisfied.

The scary part of all of this, which was mentioned in the article in the Post*Star, is the idea of premium lift tickets which would allow those who want to pay extra, to have the option of "jumping" lift lines. If you don't think this is coming down the pipe one of these days, I think you're kidding yourself. Theme parks are doing it, why wouldn't ski areas? When that day comes ... well, actually, it's just too depressing to think about it! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Snowballs]

getting to the mountain early, and getting the best parking

Ah, those were the days. Some of us, not saying :roll: who, went one step further taking the Mac Daddy parking spot right against the snow bank beside the Lodge. Such a person, recalls skiing down that snow bank right to the car many times for lunch and at day's end. That's living.

[x10003q]

The scary part of all of this, which was mentioned in the article in the Post*Star, is the idea of premium lift tickets which would allow those who want to pay extra, to have the option of "jumping" lift lines. If you don't think this is coming down the pipe one of these days, I think you're kidding yourself. Theme parks are doing it, why wouldn't ski areas? When that day comes ... well, actually, it's just too depressing to think about it! :cry: :cry: :cry:

This was done at Vernon Valley/Great Gorge. I cannot remember if this was true in the 1960s but I witnessed it during the 1970s.

Gore really does not have lift lines. The mountain has more uphill capacity than parking. If you see lines at the gondola it is only because they run it at about the same speed as the HS triple: 800-850 ft/min. When they first installed the Gondola they advertised its speed as 1100 ft/min. I have never seen it run faster than the triple.

[adkskier]

I'm pleased to see the parking lot attendants giving out warnings. (Even better if they caught the ignorant slobs and told them to move it or lose it.) I'd like to see them begin towing cars that obstruct the travel lanes. When you fall in the parking lot and need an ambulance, there needs to be ample room to get the ambulance through. If your engine catches fire, you'll want the tanker truck to get through. What may be enough space for a car to squeeze through is not enough for emergency vehicles. I, personally, have had to back an ambulance up and re-route to get to the patrol room because some was too lazy and inconsiderate to park a little further away. This morning I parked my car about 2 feet in from the end of a row. Someone is an Escalade sized SUV squeezed in, parked too close to the passenger side of my vehicle and left his over-sized SUV sticking out into the lane. He got a warning. I encourage management to tow the offending vehicles. I've always noted that if they burned one or two cars early in the year, even Gore skiers might get the message.

[Frostillicus]

*YAWN*

[Snowballs]

Yeah, we all know when it's Too Tight and shouldn't park there - but some do anyway. It's really uncool to block or impede traffic.

The Crazy Shuttle Lady usually took mirrors off cars parked like that.

[adksara]

I tried to respond to 'Gore's' ideas about single parents & issues with the paid parking area. Here's my post on Facebook...

"I'm not sure about dropping off a little one for a bit in daycare to go park the car... how can you guarantee enough people to watch the children? What if on a busy day there are too many children per adult ratio? Where would the gear go separate from the children's gear that are utilizing day care? Will it be free? How long would a parent have to park the car & then get the gear into the lodge to return to pick up the child? What kind of sign in/sign out will you have for safety?

My worry would be very few adults watching many kids & gear on busy days. I know Mtn. hosts are great about pitching in here & there, but I also want to know that the person(s) that I'm trusting with my little ones know kids and are competent & that someone is there to be sure they are safe.

This issue is just one of many that adds to the frustration of those of us who feel that this paid parking idea was not throughly thought out before the barriers went up and dollar signs danced in someone's eyes.

I thank you for trying to help and work things out. For now we will do the same until something changes."

Then Gore responded 'Sorry it's not convenient for you Sara, but for other parents please feel free to use the daycare option." Ummmm... not the point.

I then responded 'It's not an issue of convenience or not for me. I was simply trying to point out some possible concerns and problems. Sorry for trying to help... won't happen again.'

Then both of those response posts got deleted and this is what's there now...

"Thanks so much Sara for presenting your concerns, and if you're not comfortable with that option it's understandable. However, for those single parents that can use the service the daycare is available while you park."


I'm sick of trying to be good and work around this and be peaceful about it. I'm sucking it up, going to ski and not helping any more... I'll deal with whatever issues Gore creates for us in the future... always have, always will...

[ka2kci]

It is a shame that Gore continues to ignore the constructive comments that long time skiers have offered to deal with the Gold Parking fiasco. The idea of valet parking or adding an additional lot behind the lodge by the bar are dismissed out of hand. The Gold Parking was full today....I'm sure that Gore management will use that to point out the success of their ways. I heard today that two ski instructors have been fired for speaking poorly about the Gold Parking situation. It is sad that a State owned mountain (or any other mountain) would continue to treat its customers and staff in such a negative way. I am sure that when any reasonable person looks back at the implementation of this misguided policy, that the profits (if any), do not outweigh all of the negative press and vibe that they are giving out to their customers. I figure that the Gold Parking has reduced the available number of spots in the two closest lots by about 50 or more spaces. I wish that they would take our thoughts and feelings seriously.

[adksara]

It is a shame that Gore continues to ignore the constructive comments that long time skiers have offered to deal with the Gold Parking fiasco... I wish that they would take our thoughts and feelings seriously.

I agree whole heartedly.

[I:)skiing]

My posts are clear where I am on paid parking.

I would like Gore to consider Valet for those willing to pay and I think they could make more money and save or create more up close parking---free or otherwise.

I will miss the spaces right in front of the lodge on spring days...they were nice.

Not sure how slow the bus is...but if you have to only make one trip to the car....it may be actually faster than the gold lot---which in reality is not really that close----compared to where you might have been able to park in the past.

I mentioned the empty space behind the lodge before...I mention it again. Get rid of all the junk, if possible and then let the cash heavy folks park there. If htey have passes, they can go directly to BRQ from their car/suv.

On days when the lot is not FULL---give the spaces to Season Pass Holders. WHich I am not, they deserve them in my view.

All of that said....10 pages and I believe I am out on this one.

[Denison]

Didn't hear much about Gold Parking this holiday week. Could be beacause it was full and did not stick out as sore thumb.

Gotta give thumbs up to shuttle bus drivers. They are very quick and handled holiday crowds well.

"Bill" one of the drivers gives details of trails opened, lodges and services available mentioned that "52 trails open today, same as yesterday". He missed North Side opening :)

[Jackalope]

Arriving at the mountain 10:30 or so Thursday morning, I was directed by parking lot workers located at the intersection to "E" lot to the upper lot. Surprise that at that hour on a holiday there would still be spaces available in the upper lot, I stopped to inquire: "Are there still parking spaces in the upper lot?" The response was only: "Paid Parking." No mention of any other option, and of course no sign on the access road explaining the situation. It was left to me to inquire further about where to go if I was not interested in paying to park. At least I knew that free parking was an option. What if I hadn't known? I wonder how many people paid to park over the last few days because either they didn't know free parking exists, or they thought all the free spaces were full.

[Snowballs]

I hear ya Jackalope. I had that happen to me. Like you, I chuckled and said " Yeah right " and peeled off into lot E. There's always room for one more in lot E.

But I thought the same thing....those not " in the know " may have fallen for their bait.

I've actually just been walking over most of the time, but i've yet to park in F or the "way back" of E.

Speaking of Lot names and outstanding Mtn mgn, It now appears that Pratt & Co have been boning up on Sesame Street. Big Bird musta pointed out that the parking lots were very poorly named, poorly marked and caused confusion for all. Elmo says " It's simple. A letter for each parking lot. A,B,C,D,E,F!" Pure genius!

And it only took them years to finger it out! :lol:

Almost as dumb as Hickory's new electronic DAG cards. Dey dumb! How dumb?

Imagine you or your kids going thru a turnstile, like they have at the movies or amusement parks - on skis! Fun huh? But first, immediately adjacent to the turnstile is a pipe frame that's narrower than your average 32 inch door! Tight. Fatties beware. Every skier/rider is suppose to pass thru this every time, every run. What a bottle neck! Plus, if anyone wants to take advantage of the bells and whistles of this " state of the art ' contraption, they must stand there and block others while they read the inconsequentail info. This thing is narrow, i don't know how one would use their poles in such tight quarters. It will be slow. A nightmare for dorkey kids. Topper is it's positoned RIGHT before you step out to the T bar... Cluster fudge. Alot of T bars will go by empty or with one person only cuz you'ld have to wait for the next poor Smoe to get thru the gate. If they kept it back a ways maybe people could get thru it without blocking the lift so much. Still it will be a pain. Snow cover on the bottomplate of this thing will be very hard to maintain, prolly nonexistant. Great! Way dumb idea. Glad it wasn't operating yesterday.

[ka2kci]

See attached picture taken on a the summit chairlift. Gore has removed the discussion section on their Facebook page so the discussion on "paid parking" is gone. I don't know why they set up a face book page if they really don't want to hear what their customers are saying. Matt



http://s1.postimage.org/1sSMh9.jpg (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1sSMh9)
[/img]

[Lbtchnlgs]

I don't 1 oz. of the paid parking...

But the state has no money. ORDA has many facilities to keep up and running, most of them with a very low revenue to be made from visits. SKi jumps, bobsled, hockey arena, speed oval, whiteface, gore ect... While as VT resorts are owned by companys that deal only with resorts... every property they own generates large profits ( ie vail resorts, and whoever bought ASC). All of the big mtn profits are put right back into the mtns themselves, where as ORDA only has 3 public profit makers (gore/wf/arena) Though maybe someone could find some better stats.

I can completely understand that Gore has to make some extra money where they can. Unfortunately there has to be a comprimise.

We all compare stats to VT resorts, owned by corporations; which isn't really a fare comparison. Look at anything that has to do with NYS, the least efficient, most corrupt state government in the US... NOTHING is going how it should, how are we to expect a RECREATIONAL state facility to compare to other resorts.

I'm not saying that 95% of the ways Gore has gone about things such as avoiding the truth, inconsisive reporting, bad human relations isn't bad at best.[u]

A little more to this completely unorganized 5:30am "Im up because my nose is so f*ck*ng stuffed" post..

I'm aware that this may affect some families that try to get to the mountain on weekends, and are restricted to Holidays. It's going to take some getting used to... And maybe I'm just saying this because it doesn't affect me as much as others but... If it increases my chances of getting new compressors, running lifts during midweek, getting more park features, cutting new trails/glades, mountain areas... I'm willing to hop on the bus if I'm there during a busy day, or walk through the audis, yukons, explorers, x5's ect... Gives me time to set up the MP3 player before hopping on the Ganjola to tune out all the Spandex bratts... And realisticly if you don't arrive at the mountain before 9 you're doing less walking by taking the shuttle (on weekends of course)


Maybe we wont get new compressors in the next couple years, and snowmaking is going to continue to suck...but maybe the few bucks they will make (i'm sure they were planning on generating lots more) will go towards silly stuff that doesn't make sense to us 'die-hards'.

But this 'silly' stuff is what the general public wants. If we can pull the general public in they spend lots of money on day passes, lodging, food ect... and that pot of boiling money will eventually blow enough steam upwards in the budget and get better summit snowmaking, mid-week staff, water, trails, mid-station lodges, the stuff we don't need but want.

We're being typical bitchy Americans about this... Very typical. We demand more for less. We're lazy. It's clear that in no real life situation you get more for less, you want more? You work for it, if you are unwilling to work for it... well poney up the extra money. Our mountain location already puts us far below the curve... We can't have a killer mountain in the central ADKS and not pay for it in some ways. It's never going to be A-basin, unless there are some DRASTIC climate changes... and that's not happening anytime soon.

So curl you're toes and give it some time. It's not that you gotta love taking the shuttle and being inconvienienced, but know that it really was put into effect with better intentions.

Enough rant. Time for some coffee, homefries and a trip up the Northway to play in the woods.

[SIAWOL]

the idea of premium lift tickets which would allow those who want to pay extra, to have the option of "jumping" lift lines. If you don't think this is coming down the pipe one of these days, I think you're kidding yourself. Theme parks are doing it, why wouldn't ski areas?

I though Copper rolled out premium lift tickets a few years ago--pay a few extra bucks and you through an "express" lane at the lift. Quite a bit of brouhaha at the time. I'm not sure if they still offer it, but I recall some articles indicating that it wasn't really embraced. They sold some, but it wasn't as if there was any additional spent in line by the proletariat while the bourgeoisie schussed on by. Didn't Stratton or Okemo try it as well?

I read a few weeks ago--can't remember where--that someplace in Vermont (I think) offers premium parking to folks driving hybrids. Doesn't that set a better example? Surely an eco-driven policy like that has some return on it. Even free premium parking for carpoolers--like 3+ adults in a car. That'd be cool, and I wouldn't even qualify!

[bigdogmom]

There is no promise that the money raised (if any) through premium parking is going to support snowmaking or any type of upgrade for the mountain. It appears to be a poorly planned huge expenditure of money with a failed recoup of funds. If it made fiscal sense there would be no complaints.

[jmokes]

Yo, if any of you have missed it, check out the FB group "skiers against paid parking"...i can also get you the gore paid parking "ghostbusters" style stickers as well....just tired of not getting heard by management & orda.

[Denison]

...i can also get you the gore paid parking "ghostbusters" style stickers as well...

I've seen those... how do we get them?

[jmokes]

Check out the fb group & message me...send me a slef addressed stamped envelope & i'll mail them to you or swing by my locker #344 any sat or sun & i'll give you some.

[Snowballs]

More New Members! cool. Welcome aboard all!

Big dog is right....there's no gurantee of more snowmaking especially since it's Gore. In fact, that was supposed to be solved by their new and improved NOmaking system they've been upgrading. More tower guns, more capacity etc.

If Gore can't handle maintaining the snow cover on what's already open, how are they gonna handle more open terrain, Burnt Ridge AND the expansion at the Ski Bowl?

Jmokes-thanks for all you've been doing to rally the troops.

[Jeff]

This issue seems to have really alienated some of Gore's most important customers: passholders and regulars. Being a passholder myself, and having been up at the mountain 3 or 4 times so far this winter, I can say that I find the paid parking situation very off-putting. Perhaps what stands out most glaringly is just how poorly thought out the entire setup is. Making everyone else have to walk through a (usually) empty lot, with chains and barriers to negotiate while carrying skis is certainly not a warm welcome for customers. First, it seems like they should have tested the waters with a much smaller lot to out how large a market really exists for Elitist Parking. Plus there are better options. There seems to be a consensus from what I've read here and heard from other skiers that a newly created, much smaller, dedicated Gold Parking lot (a la Whiteface) would have been accepted much better. I also think that valet parking as discussed in this thread would have resulted in greater acceptance and still achieved Gore management's revenue goals. All are much better options than the plan that Gore executed.
I'll be sending for one of those stickers for my helmet.

[Harvey44]

a trip up the Northway to play in the woods.

If anyone has heard from Chris since he posted this please pm me.

[Snowballs]

a trip up the Northway to play in the woods.

If anyone has heard from Chris since he posted this please pm me.

Excellent catch Harv. Well done.

Where is Breck Boy ?

[Harvey44]

He's back, he just PM'd me.

He's headed to Mt Snow today.

:shock:

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

There seems to be a consensus from what I've read here and heard from other skiers that a newly created, much smaller, dedicated Gold Parking lot (a la Whiteface) would have been accepted much better. I also think that valet parking as discussed in this thread would have resulted in greater acceptance and still achieved Gore management's revenue goals.



not to pick on your post, jeff, you just happened to highlight two points i've been thinking about.

first, with respect to WF's premium lot, i think a lot of the "acceptance" stems from the physical geography of WF's base area as much as, if not more than, the limited size. WF's premium lot is off to the side, elevated and behind trees. sort of out of sight, out of mind.

regarding valet service, my suspicion is that it's too expensive....you'd need at least two and probably several more employees full-time to make it work efficiently in the morning and end of day. plus, gore might need to take out liability insurance or something for the employees.

i guess i just can't get too worked up about gold parking.....if i don't want to drop off the fam at the lodge and then go park the car, i can either pay for gold parking or walk a little bit extra. WALK. the horror. a lot of resorts have worse set ups, parking wise, without the option of a premium lot. heck, a lot of WF's free parking is a pain in the neck to reach on busy days, but that's what free shuttles are for.

if the section is too large for the demand, as some people think it is, i'm sure they'll adjust it.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Almost as dumb as Hickory's new electronic DAG cards. Dey dumb! How dumb?

Imagine you or your kids going thru a turnstile, like they have at the movies or amusement parks - on skis! Fun huh? But first, immediately adjacent to the turnstile is a pipe frame that's narrower than your average 32 inch door! Tight. Fatties beware. Every skier/rider is suppose to pass thru this every time, every run. What a bottle neck! Plus, if anyone wants to take advantage of the bells and whistles of this " state of the art ' contraption, they must stand there and block others while they read the inconsequentail info. This thing is narrow, i don't know how one would use their poles in such tight quarters. It will be slow. A nightmare for dorkey kids. Topper is it's positoned RIGHT before you step out to the T bar... Cluster fudge. Alot of T bars will go by empty or with one person only cuz you'ld have to wait for the next poor Smoe to get thru the gate. If they kept it back a ways maybe people could get thru it without blocking the lift so much. Still it will be a pain. Snow cover on the bottomplate of this thing will be very hard to maintain, prolly nonexistant. Great! Way dumb idea. Glad it wasn't operating yesterday.


i've had a lot of experience with those systems and they work totally fine. no need to pay for someone to check passes, and, at their best, they permit customizable purchase plans (as in, pay for 5 runs, or something like that).

[Jeff]

Mud Puddles,
I gather you're a Whiteface guy, so I don't know if you've seen the preferred parking configuration at Gore. If you read back through these posts, you'll get a pretty good idea. It is certainly much more "in your face" than the preferred parking config at Whiteface. I don't begrudge the mountain seeking out an additional revenue source, but when you observe how they implemented this plan at Gore, it's pretty difficult NOT to conclude that it was executed with an attitude of "We don't care about our customers, we're grabbing 200 spaces at $10 each :twisted:." A configuration similar to WF (which IS possible at Gore), valet parking, or even just a much smaller lot would have reflected a better thought-out plan by Gore mgt that was sensitive to its existing customers. It would have been accepted as an ADDITIONAL OPTION to customers, not taking away what they previously had. What was actually executed reflects poor business decision making. It's not about the extra walk, it's about how I feel I'm being treated as a customer.
As far as valet service is concerned, I think the economics actually would work. That's been discussed earlier on in this thread, so I won't re-hash here.
I think it will be very interesting to see how (or even if) the paid parking configuration at Gore evolves over the remainder of this season.
Hope your ski season is good, looking forward to getting up to WF myself this winter.

[SnowSnake]

Well said Jeff.

I think the point that paid parking is not a bad idea at all needs to be stressed, it is just how Gore went about implementing it that has really ticked us off. I understand that some people on this board are sick of hearing about this and tired of hearing negative comments about Gore, but the truth is Gore is moving in the wrong direction and this is the only place where we are allowed to vent (certainly cant do that on FB).

As a season pass holder for the past 22 years I have seen many many improvements made, however this recent shift has resulted in a lost sense of identity for a mountain that has long been a home away from home for me and many others. For that I think Gore management and ORDA should be ashamed. They inherited a great locals hill and they are destroying it in an attempt to become a resort. Whether or not they will be successful is yet to be seen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Harvey44]

I'm really bummed about HPD bowing out. I understand it, but I'm bummed.

If things I posted contributed to it, maybe I should take a break for a while too.

But I finished Part One of my interview with Emily and Mike. And I worked hard on it. It doesn't seem right that the people I did it for, you guys, wouldn't see it. So I'm posting the link below.

I'm posting the link here because Part One, with Emily, does have a little information about parking. But that's a stretch really. It's a about who Emily is, what she likes to ski and a few other issues (Nastar, Facebook) that have been raised this year by contributors at Harvey Road.

Part Two, with Mike, gets into snowmaking and grooming, skiing, and running the mountain. I hope to finish it in the next day or two.

I'd never really met Emily, but to say hi in the lodge, and I'd never met Mike at all. They seemed like great people to me. The whole time we talked, I pushed them on tough issues and I felt they were honest and sincere. And like everyone here, they really love Gore Mountain.

I learned things about both of them.

Emily claims to be a so-so skier, but I'm not buying it. She skis every chance she gets, snowboards and even dabbles in tele.

Mike has done almost every job there is at Gore. Groomer, snowmaker, mechanic. He knows the mountain inside and out. And he is INTO IT. I think he'd talk snowmaking and grooming all day if he wasn't so busy. He never said this, but I get the sense that when they were looking for a GM, they looked around and said .... well NOBODY knows every aspect of this place like Mike does.

So - Part One is here:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2010/01/conversation-with-emily-stanton.html

I'll get part two up as soon as I can.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Mud Puddles,
I gather you're a Whiteface guy, so I don't know if you've seen the preferred parking configuration at Gore. If you read back through these posts, you'll get a pretty good idea. It is certainly much more "in your face" than the preferred parking config at Whiteface. I don't begrudge the mountain seeking out an additional revenue source, but when you observe how they implemented this plan at Gore, it's pretty difficult NOT to conclude that it was executed with an attitude of "We don't care about our customers, we're grabbing 200 spaces at $10 each :twisted:." A configuration similar to WF (which IS possible at Gore), valet parking, or even just a much smaller lot would have reflected a better thought-out plan by Gore mgt that was sensitive to its existing customers. It would have been accepted as an ADDITIONAL OPTION to customers, not taking away what they previously had. What was actually executed reflects poor business decision making. It's not about the extra walk, it's about how I feel I'm being treated as a customer.
As far as valet service is concerned, I think the economics actually would work. That's been discussed earlier on in this thread, so I won't re-hash here.
I think it will be very interesting to see how (or even if) the paid parking configuration at Gore evolves over the remainder of this season.
Hope your ski season is good, looking forward to getting up to WF myself this winter.


fair enough, to be honest, i didn't read the 11 previous pages in the thread. sorry.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Well said Jeff.

I think the point that paid parking is not a bad idea at all needs to be stressed, it is just how Gore went about implementing it that has really ticked us off. I understand that some people on this board are sick of hearing about this and tired of hearing negative comments about Gore, but the truth is Gore is moving in the wrong direction and this is the only place where we are allowed to vent (certainly cant do that on FB).

As a season pass holder for the past 22 years I have seen many many improvements made, however this recent shift has resulted in a lost sense of identity for a mountain that has long been a home away from home for me and many others. For that I think Gore management and ORDA should be ashamed. They inherited a great locals hill and they are destroying it in an attempt to become a resort. Whether or not they will be successful is yet to be seen, but I wouldn't bet on it.



this will probably seem obnoxious, but, i think it needs to be said. don't read this if are quick to take offense. you have been warned.....

it's pretty easy to make wild claims anonymously on the internets, like being a season pass holder for 22 years, but, in the end, i don't buy it. someone who has been a pass holder for that long would have posted more than 15 posts on this site in three years....or, they wouldn't now come on line just to b*tch.....anyway, ORDA has managed gore for longer than you claim to have been a season pass holder, so you've never known anything else.....

i think one can maybe make a case for gore having been neglected 15, 20 years ago, but now? all the new terrain, new high speed lifts, new snowmaking, new lodges.....gore is moving in the right direction, unless, i suppose, one prefers a small locals hill....problem is, gore is BIG and it can attract day skiers to help drive the local economy, so, you know, go ski hickory or west if gore is now too "developed" or "corporate".... all the hyperventilating over gold parking is just ridiculous. season pass holders have it GOOD at gore and WF for what we have now....the prices are CHEAP, and, despite what some might like to think, those that work at the mountains do care about the product and about skiing.

[SnowSnake]

So now we are judged by the amount of posts we have made? I hate to tell you but the vast majority of long time Gore skiers are not out here posting.

Now you did make some valid points and yes Gore has had numerous improvements over the past twenty years that I am extremely grateful. However my view is that not all "improvements" are actual improvements and that is what I would argue is occurring recently.

Actual Improvements:
1. Rumor
2. Top Ridge Lift and trails
3. Base Lodge and Saddle Lodge upgrades
4. Increased Glading (though not the reclaiming of some of the local favorites)

So Called Improvements
1. Shortening of the summit lift (high peak) (Now that was just dumb!!!)
2. Paid Parking
3. Burnt Ridge (Sagamore is great but all that money and you have Cedars to get there, there is not enough staff to support this area and areas like the Dark Side are neglected)
4. Ski Bowl improvements (Great in theory but it is hardly used)
5. The upcoming interconnect (Once again great in theory but I can't see them maintaining all of that terrain without a let down somewhere else on the mountain i.e. the Dark Side)
6. Improved Snowmaking (I hear this one every year and yet their capacity never seems to increase and they seem to have more wet guns and subsequent ice spots than any other comparable mountain)
7. Installing a used Quad on the North Side (Great terrain but that lift is so slow!)

So yes I love Gore and I will not be switching to Hickory but I just want Gore to focus on what great terrain they have and not just making improvements for improvement sake.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

So now we are judged by the amount of posts we have made? I hate to tell you but the vast majority of long time Gore skiers are not out here posting.

Now you did make some valid points and yes Gore has had numerous improvements over the past twenty years that I am extremely grateful. However my view is that not all "improvements" are actual improvements and that is what I would argue is occurring recently.

Actual Improvements:
1. Rumor
2. Top Ridge Lift and trails
3. Base Lodge and Saddle Lodge upgrades
4. Increased Glading (though not the reclaiming of some of the local favorites)

So Called Improvements
1. Shortening of the summit lift (high peak) (Now that was just dumb!!!)
2. Paid Parking
3. Burnt Ridge (Sagamore is great but all that money and you have Cedars to get there, there is not enough staff to support this area and areas like the Dark Side are neglected)
4. Ski Bowl improvements (Great in theory but it is hardly used)
5. The upcoming interconnect (Once again great in theory but I can't see them maintaining all of that terrain without a let down somewhere else on the mountain i.e. the Dark Side)
6. Improved Snowmaking (I hear this one every year and yet their capacity never seems to increase and they seem to have more wet guns and subsequent ice spots than any other comparable mountain)
7. Installing a used Quad on the North Side (Great terrain but that lift is so slow!)

So yes I love Gore and I will not be switching to Hickory but I just want Gore to focus on what great terrain they have and not just making improvements for improvement sake.


hmmm, can't say i can argue against anything you wrote there. i would add the gondola to the the list of improvements, but, otherwise, yeah, you've identified some serious issues.

[Jeff]

this will probably seem obnoxious, but, i think it needs to be said. don't read this if are quick to take offense. you have been warned.....



I won't be offended, my skin is thick. Wife says my skull is too.


it's pretty easy to make wild claims anonymously on the internets, like being a season pass holder for 22 years, but, in the end, i don't buy it. someone who has been a pass holder for that long would have posted more than 15 posts on this site in three years....or, they wouldn't now come on line just to b*tch.

Mud, I don't buy your argument at all. Snowsnake and others have brought up very valid points. I've been skiing at Gore for years and years, I just don't post here all that much. I'm posting a lot over the past couple days because there are IMO some very serious issues that are converging right now and this is a good forum for discussing those issues. # of posts has no relationship to how long one has been a passholder or has skied at Gore whatsoever.


all the new terrain, new high speed lifts, new snowmaking, new lodges.....gore is moving in the right direction For the most part I agree with that.


those that work at the mountains do care about the product and about skiing.And I agree with that.


the hyperventilating over gold parking is just ridiculous. season pass holders have it GOOD at goreNot so sure about that. I think there are some serious issues that Gore has to come to grips with. I won't repeat my positions here on the Gold Parking, snowmaking and mid-week trail & lift closures, but those are serious issues.

[Jeff]

I'm really bummed about HPD bowing out. I understand it, but I'm bummed.

If things I posted contributed to it, maybe I should take a break for a while too.



I doubt it Harv. First, your enthusiasm for Gore is legendary. Second, you've always been respectful and appropriate in your posts here. Thanks for taking the time talk with Mike & Emily, and to gather questions and concerns from other participants here. If anything, you may be providing an avenue for Gore management to address the concerns and perhaps patch things up a bit with disgruntled customers. In that regard, you're facilitating a resolution. Hard to mistake that for negativity. The issues are real, the negativity is for the most part justified. Hope to see you on the mountain and make some turns in the woods with ya.

[Snowballs]

Jeff, I'm sure you're aware that is the same tired tactic Gore uses on it's customers who have concerns. Like you, many, many others have raised valid concerns, asked valid questions or justifyably cross examined Gore's statements or actions and " The Mountain That Loves You Back " characterizes them as rude, whiney, trouble makers. They won't stay on topic or give you fair answers, they'ld rather just ban people from their FaceBook page and silence any free speech on their shortcomings by deleteing even reasonable people's posts and actually slamming the door on some.

Masses of People are getting wise fast and they are banding together. Gore's Marketing Department and Gore's Heavy Handedness can't stop it or silence it. Gore would be wise to stop verbally allienating customers cuz....

Gore's issues aren't likely to go away any time soon. Their Diesel Air Compressor blew up. They're gimping along at a fraction of air capacity for snowmaking. It's actually visible on the hill. They aren't even close to blowing as much as they are promising people on their web page. Their telling people they are blowing some trails for days that aren't even getting touched. :shock:

I gotta wonder if they are even capable of finishing the initial covering the Hill, Opening Rumor, Opening Burnt Ridge and maintaining decent snow on the existing trails. Indeed, even when less than 50 % of the trails were open, they have not been able to maintain the trails and their customers are very unhappy.

If they don't get Sags open and the rest of the Mtn is still crap a month from now............

[Spongeworthy]

Jeff, I'm sure you're aware that is the same tired tactic Gore uses on it's customers who have concerns. Like you, many, many others have raised valid concerns, asked valid questions or justifyably cross examined Gore's statements or actions and " The Mountain That Loves You Back " characterizes them as rude, whiney, trouble makers. They won't stay on topic or give you fair answers, they'ld rather just ban people from their FaceBook page and silence any free speech on their shortcomings by deleteing even reasonable people's posts and actually slamming the door on some.

Masses of People are getting wise fast and they are banding together. Gore's Marketing Department and Gore's Heavy Handedness can't stop it or silence it. Gore would be wise to stop verbally allienating customers cuz....

Gore's issues aren't likely to go away any time soon. Their Diesel Air Compressor blew up. They're gimping along at a fraction of air capacity for snowmaking. It's actually visible on the hill. They aren't even close to blowing as much as they are promising people on their web page. Their telling people they are blowing some trails for days that aren't even getting touched. :shock:

I gotta wonder if they are even capable of finishing the initial covering the Hill, Opening Rumor, Opening Burnt Ridge and maintaining decent snow on the existing trails. Indeed, even when less than 50 % of the trails were open, they have not been able to maintain the trails and their customers are very unhappy.

If they don't get Sags open and the rest of the Mtn is still crap a month from now............Well said.

I love Gore, but they are fumbling on every possession this year. Mother Nature is not cooperating, but that hasn't hurt the quality of the product in the past. Mgmt needs to be a bit more forthright with the masses. Their silence and censorship only invites the rants.

I'd love to know what is going thru the minds of the Ski Bowl Village developers. This is not helping the plan to make Gore a destination resort.

[Snowballs]

I'd love to know what is going thru the minds of the Ski Bowl Village developers. This is not helping the plan to make Gore a destination resort.

Thanks Sponge.

I've been thinking the exact same thing. Us Locals may be stuck with Gore, but destination skiers are not. They will vote with their feet so fast Gore won't even have time fire up the spin cycle. Truth is the majority of other area Mtns have much better conditions and more terrain open than Gore. That's where they will go for their destinations.

It's not hard to imagine yet another empty, unsold and uncompleted Gore project. There's lots of those already setting an example.

[Jeff]

I gotta wonder if they are even capable of finishing the initial covering the Hill, Opening Rumor, Opening Burnt Ridge and maintaining decent snow on the existing trails. Indeed, even when less than 50 % of the trails were open, they have not been able to maintain the trails and their customers are very unhappy.


Right. For something like 5 days in a row the website stated something like "Snowmakers are getting Twister ready to open." Well, as of the report for tomorrow, Twister is still listed as closed. If it takes that long to open a single trail, there's major issues. And for like the 6th day straight the report lists Primary Conditions as "Hardpack." We have had solid non-stop favorable snowmaking conditions that entire time. That's almost enough time to have resurfaced virtually the entire mountain, at least those trails that are open. They just don't do it like that at other major northeast ski resorts.

[Snowballs]

Gore Marketing's Emily Stanton " Our Facebook Page is for Gore fans.......Our efforts will not be compromised by those who are clearly not fans of Gore........I understand that some may think it's a sounding board for complaints, disrespect and negativity. Nope. It's a marketing tool....."

Whaaaat? :shock: :shock: :shock:

I gotta throw the challenge flag. Let's go to Replay to see what happened. Roll it...

Jimmer never posted any thing rude, negative or disrespectful on Gore's Facebook page. Yet Gore Banned him. He merely asked some questions and ..."The Mountain That Loves You Back "?.....It Kicked Him Out ! Half a dozen or so other Customers also received the same "There's the Door " treatment from " The Mountain That Loves You Back ".

That was very rude of Gore and disrepectful to Gore Customers.

Other Gore Customers had their posts deleted by Gore even if they were on a topic Gore started up. For the last two weeks the Discussion boards' posts were mainly on the snowmaking thread Gore started and a Park thread ( safety concerns ) not Gold Parking which was idle. Customers respectfully posted legit on lack of/when more snowmaking and Park safety. Gore was interacting and promising them answers. Then " The Mountain That loves You Back "? It slammed the door on it's Customers. It closed the Discussion Boards. It never did share the solutions they said they were working on.

That was very rude of Gore and disrespectful to Gore Customers.

Then Gore has the nerve to come out and say it's Customers were disrespectful and negative and not fans of Gore and are to blame for the Discussion Boards coming down. Insult to Injury.

The Replay shows the only thing Disrespectful and Negative on Gore's Facebook was Gore itself. Them Cranking up that Excuse Generator they advertise and saying "It's our Facebook we can do what we want " or " It's a marketing tool only " truly DOES NOT CUT IT and is completely unprofessional. Nor does it alter the rude treatment Gore dealt it's Customers.

Instead, it very clearly shows " The Mountain That loves You Back " insists it doesn't owe us any answers to our concerns or even common courtesy. That's very negative marketing Ms. Stanton. We are your Customers. We expect to be treated like Customers. There are hundreds and hundreds of people who feel this way.

Look at http://www.skireport.com/newyork/gore_mountain/ for other customers that are upset but aren't complaining on facebook or skiadk.com. It's bigger than they realize or will admit. No other mountain is getting negative comments like this. Their is a reason for it. They care about their customers and don't blame them.

[TomCat]

When my kids were a bit younger I would make an annual trip to Pico for MLK weekend. Less crowds and less expansive were the initail draws. (Like most families, there are limited resources for entertainment) On my third year I found the mountain about half open with only moderate snowmaking. The stroy was a transformer went out. Maybe it was beyond their control, but one of my three big weekend ski trips was sub-par. The following year I went to Stratton instead and haven't been back to Pico since. Stratton was more expensive, but it was worth it because the product was very good.

I guess my point is that some customers will and do vote with their feet. People need to feel thay are getting good value for theit dollar, especially in this economy. If Gore can rectify the situation soon, I think most will be forgotten. If not they will likely start to lose customers.

tom

[Snowballs]

but one of my three big weekend ski trips was sub-par. The following year I went to Stratton instead and haven't been back to Pico since. Stratton was more expensive, but it was worth it because the product was very good. If Gore can rectify the situation soon, I think most will be forgotten. If not they will likely start to lose customers. tom

Precisely. That's exactly what people will do. Go elsewhere.

That's the real reason Gore closed their discussion boards. They could not stand the whole ski world seeing how bad their Nomaking is or their inability to solve it and deliver a worthy product. They were unable to " control the message " and conceal their problems from their Customers so they just shut it down.

Toga, I too have noticed that this is spreading beyond the core Gore community. One can actually see it popping up around the web in general and everywhere it's getting pointed out that Gore is in bad shape and has Nomaking issues.

[adkskier]

Snowmaking is back to the usual Gore standard (2 trails- see Harv's blog) this week. They poured out a crap load of snow on Hawkeye and Open Pit that just needs to be groomed and spread around. They were pounding Lies today and opened it up to ski this afternoon. They are catching up...2 trails at a time, but next they will begin pounding Rumour.

[Snowballs]

Snowmaking is back to the usual Gore standard (2 trails- see Harv's blog) this week.

AND STILL actively advertising nonexisting NOmaking efforts on 7 trails! Classy job, Pratt & Co.

MORE GORE'D!

Lest anyone bust on me keep in mind the above is verifiably true.

[jmokes]

We're staging a peceful protest this saturday in regard ot paid parking...we're encouraging everyone against paid parking to actually pay for parking....here's the kicker. We're calling it "PWC Saturday". What does "PWC" stand for you ask? Well, I'll tell ya. "PAY WITH CHANGE". That's right. Break open your kids' piggy banks, look between the cushions of your couch, empty your ash tray, whatever. Just don't have it counted out...hand the poor kid a bag of vhange & watch the line back up. Then maybe they'll start answering some questions....

[adksara]

I feel very bad for the employee who is going to have to deal with the "protest". The person in the booth, on one of the busiest weekends of the season, is going to have to deal with that nonsense... don't get me wrong, I dislike the implementation of paid parking this year, but loading more work and stress on the backs of the people on the ground at Gore is not going to change anything.

We need to be careful to be considerate and courteous, this is what is lacking on the Gore side and one of my main complaints. This action of paying with change seems obnoxious.

[jmokes]

well, to each his own i guess. the employee will certainly not make any more or less than he normally would and you clearly have the right to term it obnoxious. however, i think many of us are tired of being marginalized by a mountain that simply refuses to admit this is a bad idea or to answer any legit questions about it. you don't have to participate....it's a free country.

[jmokes]

and another thing...why are we always expected to be courteous and respectful (are we boyscouts???) when the mountain hasn't been either to those of us that keep the lights on every year. we're all just another meal ticket.

[adksara]

I was simply taught to be courteous and respectful to others... two wrongs do not make a right.

Or in this case, although Gore management is not giving pass holders & long time customers honest answers and current feelings between the two groups leaves much to be desired... I don't think throwing more work, aggravation and stress to the workers on the ground is going to change anything. Solving many of the issues of communication that have come up this year is going to take time & patience.

And you are right, it is a free country, I don't have to participate & won't.

[Spongeworthy]

I don't like this at all. You're penalizing the locals who work there and who unanimously don't agree with Pratt's implementation of paid parking.

If this goes down, I'm ripping the No Gore Paid Parking sticker off my helmet. I don't want to be associated with this.

Yeah man. It kind of feels wrong because the poor kid in the booth is going to get slammed and the end result will be Gore gets huge numbers on paid parking. Remember they will report the dollars not whether or not it was coins or dollars. I liked the idea of a BBQ instead. Maybe a large sign on the back of a truck sitting in the gold parking lot would be more productive. Is spray painting on the trails a crime?

[Denison]

I disagree as well. Think about long line of vehicles lining up all around gold parking lot and into drop off area

[Frostillicus]

I think the line of cars is is the point. Honestly, I just want to go skiing...

[jmokes]

For those of you that disagree with the "Pay with Change" idea this Saturday...

Since there's a very small group that seems to keep the pressure up i.e. stickers, business cards, continuous emails, phone calls, news interviews, blogs, etc. i thought a well concerted effort to draw more attention to the group was in order. i'm open for other suggestions that don't seem so juvenile....bueller? bueller? bueller?

How many of you have actually emailed pratt or blazer or betty little to voice your anger over this issue???? It's 1 thing to join a FB group as a sign of solidarity & protest or write about it on a blog but how many of you have actually put a sticker on your helmet or passed out a card with Ted Blazer's email? How many of you have talked about why paid parking is so wrong to others on a gondi ride?

We need everyone to do this together if we're gonna see any change in this policy & in other policies. How about once this is solved we devote some energy to getting the snowmaking improved? More benefits for season passholders? How about a better terrain park with safe landing zones so little kids don't get steamrolled? Remember that the mountain is owned & run by the state so, in theory, as tax payer we all kind of own a little piece of Gore...so give me your ideas & let's get something done.

[Lbtchnlgs]

I think it's hilarious and hope a lot of folks do it

:lol:

[SIAWOL]

I liked the idea of a BBQ instead. Maybe a large sign on the back of a truck sitting in the gold parking lot would be more productive.

BBQ is a fun idea. Set the area up with velvet ropes and a "bouncer" at the entry. A sign that says "we're better than you", etc.

[Snowballs]

hehehehe.^^^^

It doesn't bother me one bit what they got planned. Gore's not exactly cooperative or concerned or doing a good job. I skied Echo today. One run/done. All that new snow they put down is/was wet! Crappy. freezing hard.Yellow under tones like it was months old. Nothing new or fresh about it at all. Wouldn't be surprised if it goes towards boiler. You'ld think Echo's opening with groomed fresh blown on it woulda had skiers excited. It was a ghost town. I purposely stopped mid descent for 10 mins or so and nobody came down. Very disappointing.

So at least someone has the stones to stand up for us and the Mtn before it's in the can. The public at large is starting to really bail on Gore. I gotta wonder how the destination crowd will be at Gore this weekend.

The I-phone Phenom.

I rode the Gondi today with a family of five who is skiing straight thru to Tuesday. They were bailing on Gore for the rest of the weekend and their friends - 4 other families.... " They wanted to come to Gore, but they get on the i-phone and see nothing but bad news about Gore so we're all going somewhere else." They usually ski Gore this holiday straight thru but not this year,

That's alotta day ticket business lost by the mtn AND money lost by area businesses. Say good bye.

[jimmer]

i know it was wierd,there were alot of cars,but seemed no one on the hill,the summit was a ghost town,ur rite about echo,kinda sucked,we only skied the bottom half,after the twister glades,wich were pretty good,rode the chair back up too the tahawas glades,boy thats a nice lift though,fast, comfy,too bad its way over there.all in all twas a good day,late lunch at the copper field,it was all rite.

[Snowballs]

i know it was wierd,there were alot of cars,but seemed no one on the hill,the summit was a ghost town

I noticed that too and thought the same thing....it was weird! The summit was M T! Very odd.

Not sure what to make of it. Are the better skiers going elsewhere ? Everybody go to Face ? dunno.

i have been hearing Face is getting snow.

[Frostillicus]

I heard from the janitor that saratogasnowboarder paid for Gold Parking on Saturday (not with change). If you see him in the liftline pull his moustache.

[Harvey44]

Jamesdeluxe has a great quote about the pointlessness of arguing on the internet. I wish I could remember it. Something about wrestling with a pig.

In any case, the call outs from Jimmer and Jmokes on the Snowmaking Thread really got me thinking. Instead of trying to prove that I was trying to be objective, why not get input on Harvey Road from Jmokes?

So we did it.

It was fascinating. I learned things about Gore that I never knew.

And as I mention in the piece, if you really listen to what Jmokes is saying, like most of the posters here - he really loves Gore. At one point I asked him what he likes about Gore. When he got going on his favorite terrain, I think he named every trail except Tannery.

IMO his input doesn't come off as flaming, but more like the stern advice you'd give your brother, if you thought he was going down the wrong path.

He's got some cool alternative ideas about how to raise revenue at Gore too.

I know I said I'd cut down on the link posting, but I think this is the logical followup to previous pieces with Emily and Mike.

Check it out:

http://nyskiblog.com/2010/01/conversation-with-jeff-moeckel.html

My thanks to Jeff, for fitting this in. I know he's been very busy with work.

[fujative.]

Why don't we have a half pipe?
Well technically we do. It's down at the ski bowl. The walls are about 8 foot tall, on an inconsistent pitch, and our pipe cutter is horrible. The amount of money it takes to blow the snow and upkeep on the pipe cutter or getting a new one makes it entirely not worth it. Plus almost no one at Gore knows how to ride a pipe. Whiteface has one, obviously, but that gets almost no use, even from my friends who go to ski academy up there. I heard they're thinking of getting rid of it.

[DJG21]

Jamesdeluxe has a great quote about the pointlessness of arguing on the internet. I wish I could remember it. Something about wrestling with a pig.


“Never wrestle with a pig—you get dirty and the pig likes it” ??