Democrats version of budget closes ORDA, prisons

[highpeaksdrifter]

http://www.pressrepublican.com/0100_news/local_story_081225532.html?keyword=topstory

[asland]

Before the open season on bashing ORDA and New York State begins lets remember the source - the Press Republican - is a terrible Newspaper that often misrepresents reality. Also, remember, the state's budget process has lots of give and take where common sense or at least business interests usually win in the end.

[zski]

Holy crap!

if they eliminate all funding would we have a ski area to ski at next year?

they are selling passes so would that be a breach of contract ?

would they sell Whiteface and Gore or possibly liscence someone to run it like NH has done with Mt Sunapee. Getting a private firm to run it and assume all the risk would probably be our best option. They could sell multi mt season passes and WF would likely be a good draw for them.

another option would be for the Lussi / Wiebrecht's to ban to together and buy or run it

[zski]

if this passes Orda could shut down next week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[asland]

NCPR News: Senate budget plan zeroes out ORDA, cuts two North Country Prisons
http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/15412/senate-budget-plan-zeroes-out-orda-cuts-two-north-country-prisons

The good news is that it's only the senate proposal. As far as I know, this does not reconcile with the house proposals.

Don't panic but call your NY senator and let them know how this is a terrible proposal.

matt

[Face4Me]

Taken from the Adirondack Daily Enterprise:


ORDA had already been planning for a $1 million cut in its state aid, down to $5.7 million. ORDA anticipated $26,475,000 in revenue in its 2010-11 budget and $32,394,971 in operating expenses. Its largest single source of revenue is Whiteface Mountain Ski Center in Wilmington, which was expected to bring in $10 million for the 2010-11 budget, followed by Gore Mountain Ski Center in North Creek at $9.3 million.

If you take into consideration the $6 million shortfall that comes from the state and then apply the 4% STATE sales tax to the $26.5 million in revenues, you get just over $1 million in STATE sales tax revenue that goes back to the state (unless the numbers above are inaccurate), reducing the state contribution to $5 million.

If you then go ahead and factor in the STATE portion of hotel room taxes, restaurant sales taxes, sales taxes collected on merchandise sold, etc., I'm sure that you'll easily find at least another $1 million in STATE sales tax revenue there.

Next, consider the STATE income taxes paid by those who work directly for ORDA, as well as those whose income is generated as a function of services related to the ORDA venues, there's probably another couple of bucks there, plus, you don't have to worry about those individuals showing up on unemployment and/or welfare roles.

Next up ... property values. The existence and viability of the ORDA venues most certainly help to inflate property values in the Lake Placid region, thereby leading to higher property assessments and property taxes. While most of that money doesn't go directly to the state, I think (not sure, will defer to others) some of it does. Furthermore, every time a property is sold and the buyer takes out a mortgage loan, there's a cute little thing called New York State Mortgage Tax that does go directly to the state ... the bigger the mortgage amount, the bigger the tax dollars collected.

At the end of it all, it would seem pretty likely that at the end of the day ... it's pretty much a wash!!!

Albany, stop screwing around!!!

[Snowballs]

and then apply the 4% STATE sales tax to the $26.5 million in revenues, you get just over $1 million in STATE sales tax revenue that goes back to the state (unless the numbers above are inaccurate), reducing the state contribution to $5 million.

FWIW there's no Sales Tax on Lift tickets or Season Passes.

[zski]

a SUNY study last yr foudn that orda drives $350 million in revenue to NYS. When you look at the sales tax on $350M NYS and Essex county get $21M back in sales tax for putting only $6.7M in. Only a total idiot would not invents $7M to get $21M back. Say hello to the idiot democrats that run NYS - if they had any business experience at all they would make the investment. Remeber this little lesson when you go to vote in the fall.

If they don't VT will greatly benefit from all the extra business and the sales taxes

[asland]

Say hello to the idiot democrats that run NYS - if they had any business experience at all they would make the investment. Remeber this little lesson when you go to vote in the fall.

yeah, you're right.

Oh wait, aren't the Republicans at the National level the fools who ran up record deficits and deregulated everything for eight long years. Now, NY State, and most other states, ended up in this big deficit cluster F@%!? Remember that lesson when you go to vote.

[Snowballs]

yeah, you're right. I'm going to vote republican. Oh wait though, they're the fools who ran up record deficits and deregulated everything that ended us in this current jam.

Not at all. The democrats were in control of the Congress for much of it. Deregulation? You notice how you see TV commercials for stocks and investments? You never used to see them on TV. Barney Frank and Co., in charge of the financial committees, blew it by not making new rules for all the new investments flooding the market.

Bush went to Congress some 23 times and told them Fannie and Freddie needed straightened out. The then democratic Congress did nothing! Clinton and his cronies insisted on making mortgages avaliable to anyone who could not afford them. They made banks write mortgages without proper client financial documentation.

By the way, it's been over a year since this financial shakedown hit and the Democrats have done nothing to reform the finance rules. They've left us exposed to very a great risk....It could happen again tommorrow.

Dems approved the bail out money with no strings or oversight attach and much of it went overseas. The dems approved the bailout for banks and were SUPPOSED to make them rewrite foreclosure bound mortgages to prevent people from losing their homes. Well, guess what. The banks are not reworking foreclosure mortgages and foreclosures are at an all time high.

Only 169,000 home owners have been helped so far. Most report what a Bank VP revealed during an incognito interveiw. The banks do nothing but give the customers the run around. need foreclosure help ? call this 800 number. where they never get an answer only the run around and voice instructions.

By the way, I'm an independent voter who is not fond of either party but the media tends to give the Dems/liberals a free pass.

[asland]

By the way, I'm an independent voter who is not fond of either party. The media tends to give the Dems/liberals a free pass.

Independent my ass!

As for the rest of your drivel - Conservative revisionism. You have reared your ugly head!

ps. Nice attempt below to deflect the blame from the heart of the problem with your Tea Party brand of politics- The National Republicans and their conservative laissez faire politics, held power in the Congress, Presidency, and Supreme Court for most of the past eight years. NY State is now dealing with the problems they created.

pss. re: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/albany_dems_offer_labor_seats_at_TGhOyP8XHJymnpBLA r7mKO
I thought the press always gave the dems a free pass?

[Snowballs]

Just the facts man. Sorry to intrude on your charade.

Besides, zski was refering to the Albany Democrats.....the ones who brought you this........

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/albany_dems_offer_labor_seats_at_TGhOyP8XHJymnpBLA r7mKO

[Face4Me]

The only way to "fix" our government, both at the state and national levels is to institute term limits for all elected officials.

Since there's no way our elected officials would ever approve such a thing, it's up to us, the voters, to do it for them. If every American citizen decided never to vote for an incumbent, we would probably be a lot better off.

Democrat, Republican ... it doesn't matter ... 99% of them are slime who are solely interested in consolidating their power base and feathering their own nests.

By the way, Snowballs, thanks for the heads up on the sales tax on lift tickets ... my bad! Regardless, a complete cutoff of funding to ORDA and its venues is an asinine idea. We can only hope that someone with a brain gets involved and puts an end to this nonsense. Of course, the state of Vermont can only hope otherwise! I'm sure they'd be more than happy to have more New Yorkers spending their money in VT.

[Snowballs]

The only way to "fix" our government, both at the state and national levels is to institute term limits for all elected officials

Yea. Problem is the Supreme Court shot down term limits for Legislatures. They said it infringes on a Legislator's 1st Amendement Rights to free (political) speech. Huh?

Odd part is the Presidency and many Governorships are limited terms. Nobody says squat about that. It would be easy to extend the Supreme's decision against term limits for Legislators to the Executive branch. Also, there's plenty other avenues for free political speech.

Some people never shut up about it. :oops:

I don't suspect it will change until the situation is dire or on fire. When people get their buns burnt they will get motivated.

[Snowballs]

By the way, I'm an independent voter who is not fond of either party. The media tends to give the Dems/liberals a free pass.


pss. re: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/albany_dems_offer_labor_seats_at_TGhOyP8XHJymnpBLA r7mKO
I thought the press always gave the dems a free pass?

Tends, Asland, I used the word tends, not the word always. You don't know the difference? I will educate you.... if you tend to miss quote people you might always get it wrong. 8)

Pay attention. You may get tested.

[Snowballs]

Here's some odd rational. I copied and pasted it here so maybe more will read it. Here's a link in case anyone wants to sound off at this article comment section. I suspect some will.

http://www.poststar.com/news/opinion/columns/wdoolittle/article_ce0f96d4-3852-11df-9cef-001cc4c002e0.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story Discussion Posted: Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:05 pm | (0) Comments

I recently heard the news about the state Senate budget zeroing out funding for the Olympic Regional Development Authority in Lake Placid, which hosted the Winter Olympics in 1932 and 1980.

The Senate budget was birthed by a couple of downstaters - Majority Leader Pedro Espada (D-Bronx) and Finance Chairman Carl Kruger (D-Brooklyn).

If the rest of us show the right stuff like these two guys, we can cut our way out of our budget trap.

Places like the Olympic Arena in Lake Placid, site of the 1980 Miracle on Ice, cost money to run. And sites like the Olympic skating oval, where Eric Heiden won five gold medals, are taking up valuable real estate.

It is true that athletes still come from all over the world to compete at the Olympic venues and tourists still come from all over to see them and to ski on Whiteface and get a thrill speeding down the Olympic bobsled run.

But we're in a crisis. We should not be thinking about our long-term prosperity or even our viability. We need to think about whether we can pay our bills tomorrow.

If saving money now means bankrupting our future, then we must. If we can save about $6 million this year by cutting ORDA's funding, it's worth losing hundreds of millions over the next few years.

To make it personal, let's say you offered to give me $5 right now to quit my job. I'd do it, even though I have no prospects and my family relies on my paycheck, because I'd have that $5 in my pocket, and right now my pocket is empty.

A recent SUNY Plattsburgh study found that ORDA's operations had an annual economic impact on the state of more than $300 million.

But the study also found that ORDA employs more than 800 people and, because of ORDA's operations, another 1,200 people in the North Country region have jobs.

If ORDA laid off all its employees, the state would save a nice chunk of payroll spending.

And, if ORDA was gone, private businesses could lay off the 1,200 people whose jobs depend on ORDA's operations, saving those businesses a whole lot of money.

People say it's hard to cut the budget, but that is because they lack creativity, and vision.

It would not occur to most people to eliminate funding for an agency that makes the state money. But most people do not have the short-term thinking ability with which the Senate Democrats are blessed.

We must seize the day, budget-wise. New York needs to put cash in its pockets.

I have an idea for Espada and Kruger. In 2005, New York magazine estimated the real estate value of 843 acres of public land lying dormant in Manhattan at more than $528 billion.

Can you say "budget crisis resolved"? With Senate Democrats leading the way, our next stop should be Central Park.

Will Doolittle is projects editor of The Post-Star. He may be reached at will@poststar.com.


Posted in Wdoolittle on Thursday, March 25, 2010 5:05 pm Updated: 5:11 pm. | Tags: Orda, Olympic Regional Development Authority, Whiteface

[Face4Me]

Amen!

[zski]

snow balls you hit the nail on the head. The Albany Dems are so short sighted. Let's save $6M that earns us more than triple that back in taxes.

Love the sell central park idea - maybe it could become the Trump Park Towers and Casino.

why stop there. There is millions of acres of trees in the ADK park that could be cut down and sold to solve the budget shortfall

also thanks for the defense from that liberal panty waste ashland - he is too busy drinking the mass media cool aid to think any orginal thought. The dems created the bubble not the GOP.

[Snowballs]

You are more than welcome Zski! Mass media kool aid..... that is a good one and oooooh so true.

Hey guys, that Post Star article posted above would be a good place to reach out to the Politicos on this subject. The Post Star and it's staff win awards and even a Pulitzer Prize for their work. They are good at rattling Politicos cages and they monitor it to see which way the wind is blowing.

Don't know if you saw Albany is trying to make helmets mandatory for skiers. People have varying views on helmets but I'll say I do wear one.

[zski]

I'm out at the Nastar nationals with my kid in Winter Park. I had a conversation with Phil Mahre this afternoon (how cool is it to say that). I told him about the ORDA budget issue and he was pretty upset. Phil said he would write an email on Orda's behalf to the NYS state senate. Kind of hard to ignore that email.

[Snowballs]

That is pretty cool. Very good work enlisting Phil's help! Is you child in the nastar final's?

Winter Park sure seems to pop up often. A couple years ago, Better Homes and Gardens gave away a slopeside home out there. Off of Mary Jane I think. I entered religiously every day and lost. :cry:

Hey have a great time!!!

While your hob nobing w/ the elite.........PICS PLEASE!!!

(Harv usually says that part.)

[zski]

i've read the instructions for posting photos 3 times and can't get it to work - help in plain english please - I'm not a techy

[Harvey44]

Some hope on budget:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2010/03/orda-budget-cuts.html

Sign the petition:

http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2010/03/orda-funding-petition.html

[asland]

Thanks Harvey44,

I needed some good news on this. The article at http://www.northcountrypublicradio.org/news/story/15424/orda-cuts-appear-less-likely
was a good quick listen and gave me the hopeful information I was looking for.

BTW: I took a quick break from skiing on Saturday to head up to the Admin office and ask a few questions about the budget. They said they had sent some representatives and a group of athletes down to Albany to plead their case and thought it moved some senators. Overall, they were saying the outlook was pretty good for the monies being returned to the budget. They also stated that even at worse case scenario, the mountain shuts down, all funds for season pass purchases would be returned.

I tend to be skeptical, so I'm trying to verify this information before plopping down the cash for next year's season pass. Anyone else have info on this?

asland

[highpeaksdrifter]

I received this respose from my assembly representive who is a Republican:

Thank you for your email on ORDA funding. The Assembly is working so
that this funding is not eliminated although I anticipate that in the
final budget full restoration will not be made. We too realize its
importance especially to a region that receives so little.

[snowman]

http://adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/511981.html?nav=5003

I thought this editorial had an interesting take on this saying it is a way to force Betty Little to give more to the Dems.

[zski]

the state invests $6.6M that generates $350M in sales which sales tax on this $21M plus the income tax on the profits is several M more. Yet the dummy dems don't understand this and that is why this state is messed up and always will be with dems running it

If they instead invested more in WF and Gore - lets say with the snow making on Hoyts and more on other trails at WF and witht he connections at Gore they could increase tax receipts. Orda makes the state money and all they need to do is simple math. The liberal mind is not capable of simple math apparently.

[asland]

the state invests $6.6M that generates $350M in sales which sales tax on this $21M plus the income tax on the profits is several M more. Yet the dummy dems don't understand this and that is why this state is messed up and always will be with dems running it

If they instead invested more in WF and Gore - lets say with the snow making on Hoyts and more on other trails at WF and witht he connections at Gore they could increase tax receipts. Orda makes the state money and all they need to do is simple math. The liberal mind is not capable of simple math apparently.

This is good stuff. Conservative Republicans calling for more big government. In the past, Republicans tend to use the socialist word to describe state-run, ORDA. What a role reversal!

[zski]

Ashland - if the NYS liberal constitution would allow it I'd favor that WF and Gore were leased to outside private firms that could run the ski areas as for profit business. If you look at my earlier posts in this string you'd see that was the first thing I said on the subject. Since then I've learned that unfortanately we don't have that option as its expressly forbidden by the NYS constitution written by the liberals that have run this state since the dawn of time. This has been upheld by the courts so its not an option. Given that NYS is in the ski business or we don't have ski areas to ski at NYS should do it right and make money at it.

Investing in Orda makes NYS money thru the increase in revenue which is taxed heavily to support the liberal dems agendas of spend spend and then spend some more. If they are going to spend they might as well spend money in an investment in Orda which at least pays them back.