Season Pass 2010-11 Roll Call

[Frostillicus]

As a continuation of Harv's post in the other thread...

[Frostillicus]

I'll go on record saying that "I am not sure" because of the snowmaking situation. For whatever reason, it was poor this year and I can only see it getting worse with the ORDA/Budget Issues.

[Danzilla]

Wife may be prego so I may just go day to day on discounted day tickets. Also planning a few boys trips out west so my days at Gore / WF may be limited next year. Otherwise I would bite the bullet and buy the pass. We have a place in the area so going to VT isn't really an option.

[Snowballs]

I'll go on record saying that "I am not sure" because of the snowmaking situation. For whatever reason, it was poor this year and I can only see it getting worse with the ORDA/Budget Issues.

That and the fact the weather pattern here definitely seems to be changing. Can't know for sure BUT.....

This last five years have been alot warmer in winter with markedly less snow. We don't have the prolonged subzero weather we had not so long ago. Snow no longer buries the yard 2 feet + all winter long, i.e. Dec- April. Brown ground exists alot now and the snow is gone earlier.

Summers have been very cool and Tons! of rain. Days in June/July are now more like high 50's, low 60's and steadily raining for weeks and weeks. This used to happen a little each spring, a few weeks in May/June, sometimes later. Now it's a prolonged period from May almost into August.

I guess I'm saying I don't look for Ma Nature to help our Ski conditions improve any. Weather wise, ORDA lacking funds couldn't have come at a worse time.

[Spongeworthy]

We have a place in the area so going to VT isn't really an option.Me too :roll:

[Harvey44]

Good move Frosti.

I'm in the same boat with Danno and Sponge.

When we bought our land the primary recreational consideration was the woods (The Siamese) not the hill.

Even being after becoming a lift-served fanatic, and knowing all the limitations of Gore - I'd do it again.

Johnsburg rocks!

[Raymo40]

I'm in for next year. I only have an hour drive to Gore. As I get older it's not the drive up to Vermount thats bad it's the drive home that kills me. I like the closeness of Gore, plus I love the terrain. I know it was a bad snow year, and the snowmaking sucked but I still had a great time every time I went. Think about it, how many really great days of skiing have you had in the past years anywhere. Two maybe three a year. I had that at Gore this year, and this year was the worst snow year I can remember. Me I'm staying. If you all head to big K the lift line will be shorter for me. :D

[Spongeworthy]

It's time to acknowledge that, despite our complaints, Gore and the surrounding area are pretty damn good.

We're at our cabin every weekend. We kayak, ski, hike, cross-country, snowshoe, you name it. We're not too far from the best the park has to offer, and we have stuff nearby that is great (Thirteenth Lake, Minerva Beach, Crane Mountain). We have a supermarket (drive 25 miles to Newcomb and you can't even find a Stewart's!) We have good bars and restaurants. We've made lots of good friends up here and always have a great time . . . AND we have a great ski area close by.

Maybe we take things for granted. Have you ever been on a weekend liftline for the Mt. Mansfield quad, the Jay Peak tram or the Killington gondola? What's the longest you waited on a lift line this season at Gore?

Before we got our cabin, we were betting our money elsewhere -- doing the Killington-Mount Snow-Pico-Sunday River pass, or going to Jay or out west to Utah, etc. -- but we always missed Gore. We love being back and will never give up on the area. This wasn't the best season, but it didn't suck. Like others have said, it was always fun.

[TomCat]

I'll be back next winter. But the following year will be decision time for me. Kids will be in college so I won't need to ski holidays. Blackout pass + college pass in VT is about the same cost as Gore. My preferance would be to stay at Gore. I like the hill, the people attracted to the hill and the area as a whole. But if I'm going to be doing a lot more mid week skiing and they don't fix the snowmaking problems I'll be looking carefully at a change.

tom

[kvogs09]

What's the longest you waited on a lift line this season at Gore?



Over an hour at least. Wind hold wasn't the reason. Management and funding were the reasons. Standing in a gondi line that stretches the arena from 830-900 and later w/o anyone loading is pure ignorance. What kind of product are they providing? Cant say i dont enjoy my days skiing at Gore...once i'm able to actually ski. Dealing with the headaches of management shouldn't be the customers' problem. Please let me know if i'm wrong and anyone knows another ski area that is notorious for late starts, horrible snomaking, and rampant misreporting of open trails. I will not be buying a pass to Gore/Wface. I'm headed to VT where the resorts value the customer's dollar, not waste it.

[Raymo40]

1 down 10,000 to go. :D

[Snowballs]

Well Ray, I doubt we'll be saying that if there's not enough customers. It's not like Gore is swarming in business.

People with area cabins like Sponge, et al, People who live close to Gore like myself, et al....these people will likely continue at Gore.

Many people are without those ties. Many people have the same drive to other ski areas as they do to Gore. If they're going for a Holiday, likely they won't care if it's even a bit farther drive as long as it's good skiing. This Easter week break is a good example. Gore will likely be closed midweek and VT open.

The internet and I-phone apps were all a buzz with bad Gore rap this past season. People will remember that. Gore is no longer able to BS their way through bad conditions and unopened trails. Another repeat and a bad reputation will grow fueled by Albany's and ORDA's performance.

To me, this is where Gore is hurting and with whom Gore is vulnerable. Destination skiers unfettered by cabin, pass, proximity or emotion can change their ski haunts real easy. This is a large income group for Gore. Pratt claims us Season Passers are only 20% of the annual business.... actually didn't he say less % than that?

Not saying it will happen, but it very easily could. ORDA is gonna have to stand and deliver next season.

[Harvey44]

IMO Snowballs is right ... in the short term, people with ties, will stay. The long term is a different story. While there is a lot to do in North Creek that doesn't depend on Gore .... some component of long term real estate value is tied up in the mountain.

If Gore's ability to deliver a good ski experience declines, real estate values, both residential and commercial, will decline, or rise more slowly than the VT competition.

Day skiers, and those with flexibility, are key to most ski areas, not just Gore. The 20% passholder number that Mike quoted is actually a reasonably good number. Tony Lanza at Belleayre told me his revenue was 7% passholders and he'd be very happy with 20%. Even if a resort is getting 50% of revenue from passholders - which seems unlikely - non-passholder revenue will always be the difference between success and failure.

Snowballs... I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "stand and deliver." If you are talking about upgraded snowmaking and more midweek lift ops .... I don't see it happening. I'm not saying next year won't be good, but I think it's unlikely your going to see MORE spending on anything in 2010/2011. I suppose it's possible that ORDA could lose funding and leave Gore's budget untouched. But that doesn't seem likely to me.

Even if the Gore budget is only cut by 10% - roughly a million - that is going to have a big impact on ability to spend on things most of us care about. IMO how much impact that reduced spending will have on Gore's product and revenue will depend on some factors that are outside of ORDA control - the economy and the weather.

I think, this budget crisis will eventually pass. How well we come thorough it in the next couple years may be more closely tied to the MegaHarv Snow Totals (http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/10/megaharv-snow-totals-0910.html) than any other factor.

[Snowballs]

Very well put. You should Blog.

They truely need a better snowmaking performance next year. Not perfect, just markedly better or people will bail. I think they did improve with more lifts open midweek this year. Not perfect, but improved some.


You're right about.....http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2009/10/megaharv-snow-totals-0910.html. A rising tide does float all boats. It just seems Ma Nature is going thru the change.

[TomCat]

I'd be happy if snowmaking went back to where it was two years ago. It wasn't as good as VT but still buch better than last year. That might be enough to geep the faithful happy.

They will then need to improve from there if they don't want to lose the skiers without ties to the area. But hopefully by then the budget problem will be over.

Assuming they will be facing a fairly large budget gap, I think they should consider delaying the new lift. Operating a new lift (along with BR) as well as the additional snowmaking needed to keep the trails covered is going to be a tough act with less money.

tom

[SIAWOL]

I'd be happy if snowmaking went back to where it was two years ago. It wasn't as good as VT but still buch better than last year. That might be enough to geep the faithful happy.

I'm in. + 2 kids. If only I can get the wifey to learn!

Hey--I'd like to see more snowmaking as much as the next guy. But its effectiveness (and skier visits) are driven by weather more than many of the comments on this board lead you to believe. Sure, you need money to make snow. But if they absolutely buried the mountain and the daytrippers from Clifton Park can still see the grass on their front lawns, it won't be as effective as you'd think at getting that daytripper and their dollars in a car headed up to Gore.

And this was an "interesting" season for weather. Very few bone rattling cold days, WAY below average snowfall, and when the snow did fall it was in a bunch of 1" and 2" dustings. Folks asked me how the skiing was this year and I have to answer "actually, pretty good!" Coverage wasn't fabulous, but it was decent and the lack of snow at least was offset by a lot of sunny, 25-30F days.

[CUskibum]

The season pass deal that WF/Gore had for college students in the north country was pretty good. $260 for both with no black out dates. I would be really surprised if it was the same price next year. Since I live in the 518 when I'm not in Madstop, it really makes sense, and its pretty convenient. At the same time, I skied 7 days at Jay this year. The drive over there sucks, especially for one day at a time. The snow at Jay is better than anything I've seen everywhere else in the east, and snowmaking is less of a concern. Jay's price for a student pass is $200. So its definitely a tough decision. Now, if somehow, Gore/WF didn't open next year, then it would be a pretty easy decision.

[Harvey44]

I was surprised to find out that the Kmart full pass was "only" $999. I'd thought it was more than that.

Somebody told me that the price is actually less than it was a few years ago. Anybody know?

I put together a chart of basics on Kmart and Gore:

Kmart Chart (http://www.nyskiblog.com/2010/04/gore-passholder-decisions.html)

Not intended to truly compare the two, but it seems like some of y'all are eyein up the big K.

[Frostillicus]

Killington/Pico season pass is $999 for the full (it was around $1100 a couple of years ago). The Blackout Pass (blacking out days when crowds are the heaviest/ 14 days, but you get two floaters for signing up now) is $649 and you can ski the rest of this season too.

http://www.killington.com/winter/plan/tickets_and_cards/killington_pass/index.html

They also offer a nice list of perks (not limited to 1 day or 1 week a season):

http://www.killington.com/winter/plan/tickets_and_cards/pass_benefits/index.html

When ASC owned K/Pico I would buy the $350 bronze pass and the Gore/Whiteface as well. K can be a zoo, but if you know where to go you can avoid the crowds. On the weekends, most of the crowds started late (after going out) and would only really be heavy for an hour or so. When it got too crowded we'd go to Pico.

[Snowballs]

That does sound good. Just keep in mind gas may be $3.40. The rest of the World is taking off economically. Demand is growing.

[I:)skiing]

I am on the brink of paying with discounted passes and buying a season-non holiday pass. In hindsight I should have purchased the non-holiday pass this spring, rather than pay the 250 for 5 days of skiing. Stupid I know.


Oh well, Gore needs the money.

[Snowballs]

I'm gonna wait and see what happens in Albany. I have absolutely no, zero, nada faith in those clowns. Translation - I expect they'll fudge it up even worse than it is. It is amazing the depths of ineptitude they aspire to. Just when I think they can't do anything more moronic WHOOPS! there it is!

9 years ago the State approved Video Lottery Terminals. All they have to do is chose an Operator. They haven't. They claim the State is losing 1 million dollars a day because of no Operator. :shock: So da Gov chose an Operator a month or so ago. It was rejected by the Gaming Commission as an unfit Operator, ie corrupt. The Gov offered all his paperwork on the deal, but the Senate refuses to answer subpoenas for their paperwork/connections. So ya see, it's all fudged up, mass corruption rules, and the State is losing a Million a day because they can't decide which company to permit fleecing of the taxpayers. One Politician wants company X (his cronies and pocket liner) while another Politician wants Company Y ( his cronies and pocket liner).

Personally, I think there's too much gambling avalible now. It's a huge hidden tax on society. The above story illustrates how far they can go to screw things up.

Worse case, I'll buy some twin tips and become a Park Rat @ West. Look out below!

[Snowballs]

I received this note from a Gore Patron who is experiencing difficulty joining our site. So I took the liberty of posting it for her.

Any way to get new members online better/faster?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the heads up, but I already follow the skiADK.com website with interest. Unfortunately, I can't get on the forum. I applied months ago, but can't get on without a moderator...so I just lurk.

If I could get on the skiADK page, here's what I would say:

"The Democrats in the NYS Senate are playing with the lives and livelihood of the people of the North Country. They proposed cutting the ORDA budget, which will remove $350 million tourist dollars from the winter economy of the North Country, forcing the closure of restaurants and motels, mom-and-pop shops, and affecting all aspects of life in the area.

However, I understand that the Democrats have said that they will restore the ORDA budget, allowing Gore, Whiteface, and the Olympic venues to operate, IF and only if, the Senator Little will change her vote on another issue, (I heard it was gay marriage, but don't quote that for truth) even though that issue goes against the will of the people in her district.

In my opinion, this is simply extortion."

I posted on the Gore FB page to get the word out to the uninformed masses while trying to stay on the expansion topic.

I'm one of the folks with a choice to make. Driving 55 minutes to Gore or 90 minutes to Kton. I already have a Spring Pass a Kton and I can upgrade to unrestricted 2010-11 for $530. I ski midweek and Sundays. I got tired of closed lifts that closed whole sections of Gore. I don't want to spend $699 (or less with the Friends deal) only to find out that we have a part-time mountain. The Kton deal is only good through the end of April. If the NYS Senate doesn't make up their mind by then, I will be skiing in VT.

Keep me posted if you hear anything.

Thanks again,

[Harvey44]

The poster/lurker above isn't unique. It does seem likely that NY State will have a net revenue loss if they don't fund/operate Gore and Whiteface.

Snowballs .. with regard to the forum issue ... I sent Greg a note asking if he could push through any outstanding "applications." Without new blood eventually the forum will die and personally I'd really hate to see that happen.

[Lbtchnlgs]

Will be back in Summit County next year.

Epic pass for $600 is a deal that can't be beat. Breck, Keystone, A-basin, Vail, Beaver Creek and I'll most likley be using the Heavenly days as well.

[Snowballs]

I see Gore came out with the payment plan for Full Season passes again. That's a good idea, though I don't know why it doesn't include all passes. I don't think it costs Gore anything. Last year there was an ~$40 per pass charge for this. The payment plan is a nice way to help people out, esp those buying multiple passes.

[Harvey44]

No surprise - we jumped in today. Mrs. Harv and I have full Gore/Whiteface passes for 2010/2010.

[TomCat]

I will buy my pass next week, but my wife will either use discount tickets/empire card. In general that doesn't work out as well for the mountain since you generally end up skiing less when you pay by the day.

I'll wait until November to decide about the kids - no penalty to wait.

[midwestblues]

We are in as well. Me, wife and 2 kids ages 12 and 14. Passes are getting expensive at about $2000 for the family. I sure hope they do a better job with the snow making. Also considering a seasonal rental. Add another $7000 minimum for the seasonal rental. This sport is sure getting expensive but it is one of the few activities that we still do together as a family that we all love. Those weekends together throughout the winter are what make it worth the cost.