A wish/suggestion list for Gore 2010-2011

[adksara]

I've been thinking back over this season and going over some of the changes that have happened on the mountain that were for the good & bad.

So here's my idea... post to this thread your positive & constructive ideas for a more successful Gore 2010-2011 season. Keep in mind two of the previous words were 'positive & constructive', this means I don't want to read any whining about what did or didn't happen this year... it's over & finished with... think forward and both short & long term. If you can come up with a 'wish/suggestion' list of a few things I'd like to gather them all and compose a letter to Mike & the powers that be at Gore.

My wish/suggestions look like this:
1) Reconfigure paid parking at a 90 degree angle to its placement this year. Run the entire paid parking along the left, below the ski patrol building and in front of the new lodge. Leave the other 1/2 of the parking lot open & free for early birds. Have a split at the top of the access road with signs pointing to Paid Parking so the lot attendants don't have to stop every car causing traffic jams.

2) Balance snowmaking and coverage better, rather than slap snow lightly on many trails, cover the main arteries well & deep to make sure it will last the early season & late season weather changes. And be honest about difficulties with snowmaking, if the compressor broke, if pipes burst, if a giant Polar Bear chewed through the electrical - just say so & give updates as to how the fix is going.

3) Lifts: Run the High Peak chair more during the midweek. Once the terrain is open, the Dark Side is a fantastic afternoon haunt, cutting off that chair limits the summit and changes the mountain for midweek skiers.

4) Saddle Lodge: Bring back the big tables in the open area, the 'cafe' chairs and tables are a viable sitting arrangement around the fire, but I've seen too many families & ski school groups (little ones) come in and scan the lodge with little luck of a space big enough for all of them.

5) Bring up a picnic table or two to the top of Burnt Ridge. I had a few great days over on the ridge & would have loved to stash a pack to eat my lunch rather than return down to the lodge.

6) Start planning a better warming hut/lodge for the summit. On those cold days the warming hut at the top is cramped at best and looking at other lodges/mountains Gore would be better served to have a more up to date lodge & bathroom at the summit. Maybe not ever food service, but a lodge with chairs, tables, space & views!!!

[Spongeworthy]

1) Reconfigure paid parking at a 90 degree angle to its placement this year. Run the entire paid parking along the left, below the ski patrol building and in front of the new lodge. Leave the other 1/2 of the parking lot open & free for early birds. Have a split at the top of the access road with signs pointing to Paid Parking so the lot attendants don't have to stop every car causing traffic jams.Great idea. I was thinking about this all weekend. You would think that the people who are paying -- a minivan full of kids, for example -- would prefer to be close to the Northwoods Lodge. Running the paid lot from the width of that lodge to the back of Lot A makes sense. The walk from the back of that lot to the Northwoods Lodge would be shorter than the walk from the far left front. Then the early birds can still get a good spot.

[Snowballs]

6) Start planning a better warming hut/lodge for the summit. On those cold days the warming hut at the top is cramped at best and looking at other lodges/mountains Gore would be better served to have a more up to date lodge & bathroom at the summit. Maybe not ever food service, but a lodge with chairs, tables, space & views!!!

For Crying Out Loud......Get rid of the old Summit Gondi Building!!! Seriously. What an unnecessary PIA obstacle! We're " sorta " used to it, but if it wasn't there, it would truly be an " OMG!!! Why did they not move it before?!! " feeling.

Get the ball started to erect a new Summit Hut. Locate it atop the very summit near Cloud. Panoramic Mtn views on almost all four sides People ! Use half or more of the old Summit Gondi Building for the shell. Cut it in half and drag it over there. Yes, it's that simple to move old, dried out buildings like this one.

Sara's correct. A new Summit Lodge is needed. A great one would add business! One as I describe would be a Signature, Designer addition to Gore. It would have the best lodge views in New England. It would have a sizeable WOW! factor attracting/retaining more customers. If I did it, it would be the coolest spot to hang. Skylites, window walls, stone work, nice wide decks for sunny afternoons enjoying expansive views of the High Peaks and the VT Green Mtns all around you. I'm telling ya.....

Even during low money times, I could get it done. So can Gore/us. Big Tupper was resurrected, saved from the abyss, by a volunteer group of workers.

That's my third suggestion. Gore should make plans to utilize volunteers during the economic down turn period.

[SIAWOL]

I suggested this one last year---and I don't even go to North Creek:
***Sell "menu space" in the gondolas for local restaurants to post their menu/specials/hours/etc. I don't want adds for chapstick and granola bars, but rather use the ad space to support local business.

Here are some others:
***Open boundary policy WITHIN the mountain limits. If you can see it you can ski it.
***Actually light a fire in the fire pit on the deck. Add a second one! Encourage folks to congregate outside! Who wants to sit in a stuffy base lodge?
***Let half of certain trails bump up throughout the season: Hawkeye, Lies, Topridge, Sagamore, Echo....
***Adjust entrance to Wild Air to either middle or skier's right---maybe even with a "gate" to navigate--reduce the number of folks zipping down Sunway and right into the park without even slowing down, cutting everybody waiting for the features.
***better "trail" markings in Cirque glade. I know, I know...it's a glade....but several times I've found myself losing sight of the yellow blazes on the trees...and I'm a seasoned woods skier. Winding up in a drainage or rampant puckerbrush is not on my "to do" list.
***Get the SB Quad lifties to actually SLOW the chair down on busy days. They get that cranked all the way up and the fact is a lot of people can't navigate onto the chair safely and quickly enough--especially loading 4/chair--so as a result it shuts down multiple times on the way up. It probably takes longer to get up when they run it that fast for that very reason.
***Picnic tables in saddle lodge. Cafe tables and chairs are a minefield to navigate and folks set up shop in there with nary a free seat to be had. Very frustrating even for just my daughter and I. Picnic tables just lend themselves better to "hey, can we slide in here?"
***Wider slots on gondola ski boxes. Today's fatter skis don't fit in well. I know some of the cars have a wider design. But the majority of the cars still have the narrower one--my Pocket Rockets don't fit in there together, so one ski goes in one box--at an angle--and the other ski in another box. And they're hard to get out. And I just took up a slot from somebody else.


FWIW, I thought Mountain Adventure was VERY well run this year. Staff was friendlier than ever, lots more activities to keep kids engaged: drawing safety posters, runs down the NASTAR course, scavenger hunts on the mountain, etc. Great job, folks!

[baitman5238]

I think these are good suggestions and would add "first tracks program like WF" - for the early birds, a nice treat and really enjoyed it at WF.

I would say the suggested expenditures are wishful thinking given orda situation, but the stuff that takes effort versus money makes plenty of sense.

WF has MacKenzie for bumps, seems like Sagamore s/b Gore's bump trail, instead of 1/2 of 5 different trails.

Btw, i think the crew at the SB Chair should have a tip jar because for the most part, they really do work their tails off on that lift and again, for the most part, grab the chair and pull it down to help people get on. I think they do a great job.

Just one bait man's opinion

[adksara]

These are all great ideas so far!!!

As an FYI Harv & I are scheming together to use both his blog & the letter/email to Mike (maybe even a sit down) to see where we can take this!

Keep the cheer & keep the good ideas and thoughts coming! 8)

[TomCat]

I would like them to find another trail for the racers. Closing Twister makes access to BR a chore. The area is underutilized.

Some snow fence or shrubs near the Saddle to help keep the snow on the trail when the wind picks up.

Maintain the snowmaking equipment during the off season so that it's 100% by November.

Have a good summer!

tom

[Frostillicus]

Snowmaking. Snowmaking. Snowmaking.

FWIW- I don't mind skating around the old gondi building. I think of it as a "warm up".

[adkskier]

Great ideas so far. Here are a couple for the base lodge:

1. The entry/exit doors are a bottleneck that will only be really fixed when they install 4 or more doors together. In the interim, put up "In" and "Out" signs on the doors since many skiers are not courteous enough to enter single file and keep right.
2. On race weekends, the lodge is a zoo. How about taking the big room on the lower level (where rentals used to be located) and calling it the "Racer's Lounge". Install bulletin boards and an award podium and funnel all the racers to this space. They'll be more comfortable and so will we!
3. Create a free (staffed) bag check room in the Santanoni or the Tahawus room and establish a "no bags on the floor" policy. Other ski areas (Mt Snow, Whiteface, Stratton) have done this. They post polite signs indicating that one should use the bag check and that bags left on the floor/tables will be checked by staff. So many times people park their tremendous bags and coolers under the tables leaving no space to fit one's legs while eating. the bag check area will take little space and the kid working it will make good tips.

[TomCat]

I don't really mind the bags on the floor. But I do mind people leaving tablecloths and coolers on tables for the whole day as if they own the table.

tom

[Frostillicus]

I don't really mind the bags on the floor. But I do mind people leaving tablecloths and coolers on tables for the whole day as if they own the table.

tom

+1

[Spongeworthy]

How about enforcing the "no skis allowed inside the lodge" policy?

[Harvey44]

Good thread concept Sara - lots of great ideas here.

I'm having a hard time coming up with ideas that don't cost anything. I don't think we'd get any response from Mike or Mgmt on any ideas that cost, before the orda/state budget is settled.

The parking idea seems like a really good one, and would be a nice compromise. I sincerely hope that that situation doesn't go in the other direction. Not sure if people paying for parking necessarily coincide with those who use the Northwoods Lodge the most. It may be true, but not in our case. Funny thing is that I could not get myself to park inside the ropes even on days when it was free. Stupid huh. And we use the Northwoods Lodge every ski day.

SIAWOL ... lots of good ideas. The open boundary ... is almost a defacto reality. Would probably get a lot of press if they came out with it. Would it result in more SAR events like 2/28? Would love to hear from Mike or Patrol or someone who knows.

Bumps .... everybody wants bumps. Even my wife wants em now.

Not a fan of first tracks passes. I didn't know WF had it? I'd probably cough it up, but would hate to be in a situation where other ski partners had a lesser pass.

The racing lounge idea is awesome. Would that fly? I think it might.

Gotta say that this year seemed pretty good for mid-week lift ops after presidents day (http://harvey44.blogspot.com/2010/03/midweek-lift-operations.html). Of course when I say mid-week lift ops I'm talking High Peaks. You might mean something else.

If the topography was there, I'd love to help cut something that would get us over to Burnt Ridge. Even a cattrack. I think it would even make sense to sacrifice some of the lower portion of Cirque/Sagamore. The problem is that the race course NEEDS a specific kind of layout that is available in only a few places on the hill - namely Echo and Twister. That problem isn't going away. I wonder if you could get the course high enough up on Echo to allow a cut across below the racing? I doubt it, but who knows.

I like the fact that you don't really need a locker at Gore. But then I only eat breakfast at the base. Never lunch. At 7:30 I've got the whole table to myself.

Sorry for the ramble. Like I said .... I'm having a hard time coming up with "free" ideas. You guys done good so far!

[Snowballs]

are not courteous enough to enter single file and keep right.

Yea, what is up with that? Are people complete dufuses? Many times this season I was going solo down the concrete steps that lead away from the lodge. The steps were empty. Even tho I was halfway down them and off to the right, other people would ascend and commandeer the whole stair case. :shock: Finally I started speaking up after getting pushed around by these people or families....." Hey Einstein, you gotta share the steps! Single file Noodles! I was here first...etc ".

No, I wasn't shy or meek about it. No, I wasn't the rude one, they were! I always make room for others and get tired of people and their rude azz ways. That's a pet peeve for me. So, sometimes I educate Rudies. I'm not a rude or mean person at all. Push me around and I will gladly respond.

I don't think the country would do as well during a Great Depression now as it did 80 years ago. People are just too rude and extremely selfish now. Our society will be extremely violent when it comes.

Racer's Lounge is a great idea and it's a cool name! Cool names can make ideas happen.

Not@ADKskier or others here....

I never complain about the racing cuz it's good for the Mtn and good for the racers themselves. I like that. I like that alot. I also liked old Twister much better than new Twister but it had to change for racing's sake. So be it.

[SIAWOL]

How about enforcing the "no skis allowed inside the lodge" policy?

Ugh! How 'bout it? Forgot all about what a nuisance that is--maybe it's because I avoid the day lodge as much as possible. But is it really that hard to leave the skis outside? I'm not naive enough to say no one's going to steal them, but come on.....A real eyesore!

[TomCat]

Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about the racers. I agree that it's good for the mountain. I think there are some competitions where twister or echo are the only options, but I think there are times when other trails could be used.

The racer lounge is a good idea and plays to the ORDA olympic theme. But if it's a section of the main logde it should be open to the public when there is no racing. I wouldn't want to hunting for a table while a whole section of the lodge sits empty, especially during holiday periods.

tom

[adksara]

Focus people, focus!!!

Some great ideas so far, but don't get sidetracked... for example racing on Twister, yup it happens, yup it may not be the best of trails to use at times; but what other trails can be used? When? What could be done to cordon off different sections...

Enforcing no skis in the lodge - good idea... now move on - more ideas!!!

Don't whine, don't complain - think it though...

[baitman5238]

The "first tracks" thing at WF is (i) free (ii) first come first serve, by phoning in (iii) usually worth about 2 runs with the ski patrol and by the time the second run is done, the mountain is open. At WF they do it only on selected weekends and it's from the Gondi down Excelsior to whatever run they take you on down to the base. Maybe it makes no sense at Gore - it really may not - but i had a ball doing it at WF. Once those runs are done, you turn in your little badge and you're back with everyone else. It gave me a chance to ask some questions i probably wouldn't have otherwise had time to ask, and learn a bit more about the mountain, the ski patrol, etc. Oh, this reminds me of another thought - http://www.gpsforskiing.com/ and/or http://www.slopetracker.com/ are ways that you can map your day of runs on a GPS device Garmin sells one for about $60). WF is tied into the Garmin device, not yet to slopetracker. but i spoke to Emily about getting Gore tied in as well (and maybe even offering to rent the devices to make a few more bucks another way. Just was a thought

Harv - thanks for all your efforts here, you and everyone else really made skiing more predictable and enjoyable for my crew this year - hope to "bump" into you someday

[SIAWOL]

multi-week/seasonal learn to ski/ride program for ADULTS.

Sugarloaf has a good one--same instructor for 8-10 weeks, on the hill two sessions every Saturday. Adults want to learn to ski, and they appreciate the comfort of knowing every week who their instructor is, who is in their group, what they're going to be working on, etc. And they build friendships (and a love of Gore) by doing so.

[SIAWOL]

Two more:

-live music on the deck in the afternoons (and have the deck snack bar open!)

-a couple hosts/greeters stationed outside base lodge in the mornings

[luv2cruz]

Finish the NC connect so they can get back to the business of running a ski area!!!!! Make more snow, make more snow and make more snow did I remember to say make more snow. And in closing I think they should make more snow!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[x10003q]

1. There should be real flush toilets at the located at the top of Gore and the bottom of the Burnt Ridge HSQ. A third location could be the bottom of the Top Ridge triple. They should be enclosed in some real warming huts. Including a snack bar would be better. Gore is way to big and spread out to rely on just the Saddle toilets and snack bar. The distance in a straight line from the top of Gore to the bottom of BR is 2.52 miles. At Killington the distance from the top of Ram's Head to the Bear Mountain Lodge is 2.58 miles.

2. There should be a narrow connector trail starting 50 yards below the Foxlair/Sunway intersection as a way to get to Showcase.

3. Open the trees on the lower mountain from Twister to Sunway. I like the all open policy proposed, but it might leave to many options for error. The lower mountain drains in one place with some nice low angle glades.

4. As mentioned - fix the snowmaking. Unlimited Hudson water is useless if you cannot get the water to the slopes.

[SIAWOL]

3. Open the trees on the lower mountain from Twister to Sunway. I like the all open policy proposed, but it might leave to many options for error. The lower mountain drains in one place with some nice low angle glades.

Make one of these sections in the middle of the mountain--like off Wild Air or Showcase--a designated, blue square, "kids glade".

[I:)skiing]

Draw a map NOW where the bare spots grow in spring. Pile snow in those areas 3 weeks before the melt starts.


Mgmt to thank the staff more often---most of them were absolutely wonderful. Not saying mgmt does not thank them now, but the more they are appreciated, the better results become, especially if there are no pay raises. Come up with incentives for staff to be customer friendly. If you have some, think of more. Happy staff brings more customers. This is one reason I set root here.

When the Gondi is open in off season, make it free or reduce prices. Lets be honest, unless my math is wrong, the mountain does not see 10% of the cost of running that thing...so chalk it up to public awaremess and marketing....or go with the more volume, lower prices = same cash intake. If you travel up to travel back down, its free. If you got a mountain bike---different story.

Let volunteers help out or do the mountain bike course building---with your plans.

I saw some partnership with town----Double efforts. Really join efforts for the town to market Gore and visa-versa.

Free (sorry Harv) water and sun screen bench on hot days. It does not cost much, but it YELLS---we care about you, our cusotmers.


Bring back SAME pizza recipe. It was good, maybe not NYC good, but better than most places.

Ask Mountain Bike Mike---to visit and give (or pay him) for advice. Consider co-marketing "come to NY" for mountain biking.

Gore--partner with Rails to Trails---get that NorthCreek line approved heading to North River and beyond. Then when you open for summer gondi rides there will be people that might pay--see above.

Summer Campfires (with guitars or whoever/whatever muscician/story teller can come--free) at little gore ski bowl.....Saturday nite. You now have the facilities, lets start using them.

Put in one of those zero-grade mountain bike mogul type trails that WF has---in the Ski bowl--open to public.

Money--- add skate park or trampoline park at Ski Bowl. Get a fed grant, partner with the town, find a sponsor. Where I live, the city paid for the materials and the city workers spent their "free" time putting it together....materail cost was $300k, but the finished product has 5- 1/2 pipes, tons of ramps, 1/4 pipes, rails etc.



Why summer stuff for winter? Marketing.

[adkskier]

I'll second no charge off season Gondi access for season pass holders. How silly to charge those who really support the mountain financially.

[TomCat]

I'd take a Gore only non holiday pass for $409, like the one available at whiteface.

tom

[Snowballs]

I'd take a Gore only non holiday pass for $409, like the one available at whiteface.

tom

I don't know why that's unavailable to Gore customers. Doesn't seem fair.

I see they're not offering the payment plan for passes either this year. I would think it's a good way to get people to commit to the " shaky " situation. Espescially with those eyeing up the Big K pass purchased by the end of this April. It is a nice way to help people out and I really don't see any down side for Gore.

I may just skip all this game playing and by my full pass from Face again this year.....if I buy one. Gore lifties wave Face passers right thru without even scanning them. It got to be I'ld just say " Whiteface " and they'ld wave me right through. Saves hassle and other people look at you like you're Glen Plake or MC2! :D "That's right, I'm bad!" lol.

Free off season Gondi rides for Passers would get me and mine up there. We're more inclined to stay in town for eats and such during the off season. As it is now there's WAY! too much other stuff to do here than go pay Gore for a summer gondi ride. It's not like it's just $10 dollars per person.

[fujative.]

Enforcing no skis in the lodge - good idea
How many times have you or someone you know been injured by people with skis in the lodge?
Do they damage the lodge?
What about people who have lockers in the lodge?

I bring my stuff in all the time. I don't trust people and I don't want to hassle with a lock.

[Snowballs]

Enforcing no skis in the lodge - good idea
How many times have you or someone you know been injured by people with skis in the lodge?
Do they damage the lodge?
What about people who have lockers in the lodge?

I bring my stuff in all the time. I don't trust people and I don't want to hassle with a lock.

Dang kids. :wink:

[Spongeworthy]

Enforcing no skis in the lodge - good ideaHow many times have you or someone you know been injured by people with skis in the lodge?I have had, and have seen, a number of close calls.

How much hassle is a lock? More than carrying your skis inside :?:

[Snowballs]

Other Government bodies are using volunteers for projects, including people from the County's Alternative Sentencing Programs. I sent this link off to Mike, to show him it is being done successfully. If I were him, I would be milking this cow till her teets hurt. During the $ crunch, volunteers could augment Gore staff to get even more done in the off season.

He MAY be able to use some Alternatives Sentencing people to augment the Snowmaking crew next season. They were short bodies last season, BOO!

He's gonna have to think outside the box to git-r-done this year.

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/article_25104442-4cb2-11df-a67b-001cc4c002e0.html