2006 admendments to WF UMP coming up

[Phineas]

Nice plan, something for everyone

52 ACRE GLADE proposed in the Tree Island POD!

[AdironRider]

Any idea where we can see the full repot? Release date?

[Phineas]

Any idea where we can see the full repot? Release date?

I'll let U know when its posted on the web.

[mattchuck2]

http://www.whiteface.com/newsite/wf_ump.pdf

[takeahike46er]

A few observations and opinions about the changes made since the 2004 UMP:

1) As Phineas pointed out, a large glade has been proposed for the Tree Island Pod. Judging by the topography of where it is proposed, it looks like it could be very gnarly in sections. Depending on the lines they cut this glade could be FAR steeper than anything currently at WF. I viewed satelite photos of the terrain. The center section of the proposed glade appears to have nice open forests.

2) "Whiteface Glade" as it was called in 2004 (the area between Paron's and Cloudspin) has been eliminated from the plans. The tree island glade looks like a better plan IMO.

3) The proposed lift now looks to be a triple instead of a double. It's a good change from the perspective that it will encourage skiers to utilize this terrain, thus spreading out the crowds better. However, the higher lift capacity will likely degrade trail conditions faster than a double.

4) The trail network for tree island has changed dramatically. The runs no longer branch off as previously proposed. Instead, two diamond run consistently from top to bottom. They are slated to be wider than previous plans and more linear in design with some double fall-lines. I would have preferred narrower runs.

5) A proposed trail between Upper Mac and Empire looks to have been eliminated.



The intermediate trail from the tree island pod to the base looks like it will be a great, long cruiser with a moderate pitch.

I am concerned that the supposed intermediate trail leading back to the tree island lift is a bit steep for a blue run (based on the topography it traverses). Steep terrain + intermediate skiers + high volume + no other intermediate options to the lift = icy conditions.

[takeahike46er]

One more observation...

There is no longer a trail from the tree island pod to the summit quad. I hope that the summit quad will be accessible from the new trails. Having to ski down to the base to access the summit would suck.

[tjf67]

Is there any funding in place to accomplish any of the objectives.

Short term fix they should put vents in the bathrooms downstairs and get that stink out of there. It smells up the entire locker area.

[Phineas]

One more observation...

There is no longer a trail from the tree island pod to the summit quad. I hope that the summit quad will be accessible from the new trails. Having to ski down to the base to access the summit would suck.

counting contours it looks like the new triple would be 20 feet lower than the summit quad... humm.. it would be perfect if their was a choice ...

I got no problem humping the 20 feet but that's me... I'll check in2 it though

[AdironRider]

I really hope that they make a connector from the new trails to the summit. It would be a major pain to have to ride two lifts again to get up there.

Also, anyone know how strict they are for a little "local initiative" glade cutting. Or would they make a stink? Ive been eying the eliminated glade area between Cloudspin and Parons and itd be sweet to hack a tight little thing up. Keeping respect for the wildlife and rules of the park of course. Alot of local hills round NH where I call my true home have alot of locals only spots that were cleared out by locals a while back, itd be sweet to fab something up.

[Phineas]

[quote="AdironRider"]I really hope that they make a connector from the new trails to the summit. It would be a major pain to have to ride two lifts again to get up there.

Also, anyone know how strict they are for a little "local initiative" glade cutting. Or would they make a stink?

Very strict, big stink

[AdironRider]

Bummer. At least I know of a few locals only spots at Cannon that are pretty sweet.

[Faceplant]

Looks like the proposed new trails come within inches of the 25 mile limit (24.96) (I always thought it was a 26 mile limit...guess I was thinking about Catalina Island song). Hopefully there will be a "service road" for groomer convenience :wink: :wink: that wil serve the same purpose.

[kcyanks1]

4) The trail network for tree island has changed dramatically. The runs no longer branch off as previously proposed. Instead, two diamond run consistently from top to bottom. They are slated to be wider than previous plans and more linear in design with some double fall-lines. I would have preferred narrower runs.




Looks like the proposed new trails come within inches of the 25 mile limit (24.96) (I always thought it was a 26 mile limit...guess I was thinking about Catalina Island song). Hopefully there will be a "service road" for groomer convenience Wink Wink that wil serve the same purpose.


Number 4) from takeahike46er's post is disappointing if that means wider, straighter trails as opposed to windier, narrow trails. I wonder if Faceplant's observation has anything to do with that - would a windy trail put them above the limit, given that they are so close? Is the limit only a function of miles, not acreage? If so it seems like they have nothing to gain by making trails narrower from the standpoint of what they can legally do (they'd be more fun, of course, though :-) ).

[takeahike46er]

The trail mileage is the only limit I have ever heard mentioned with regards to expansion. I assume an acreage limit either doesn't exist or WF is not worried about reaching it.


I think the changes made to Tree Island were largely to preserve Bicknell's Thrush habitat. The branching trail design was eliminated to decrease the number of tree "islands" (since Bicknell's Thrush favors larger chunks of forest). With less branches to disperse skier traffic and an increase in lift capacity, the trails were widened where possible.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

Some observations/thoughts:

1) The parallel trail design is pretty uninspired. Is that really the best that could be done? Anyone want to take bets on how many cat tracks Whiteface will cut between the two trails and label as trails (a la Cloudspin and Skyward)?

2) Please don't widen Empire. It's not as if a wider Empire will alleviate skier congestion, but it will take away a unique trail. I still remember the pre-widening Wilderness, and how much more fun that trail was.

3) 50 acres of glades could be fun, yes, but I hope Whiteface learns how to cut a decent glade. Just cutting some trees isn't enough. Whiteface should hire some trail design consultants to get the most out of the terrain.

4) Widen Niagara? Really? How much wider does it need to be?

5) I was unaware of the so-called 25 mile trail length limit. Before permanently removing trees and making more Whiteface trails increasingly more generic, why not focus on amending the 25 mile limit? If more trails could be cut, but narrower, wouldn't the environmental effect be similar?

[highpeaksdrifter]

Some observations/thoughts:

1) The parallel trail design is pretty uninspired. Is that really the best that could be done? Anyone want to take bets on how many cat tracks Whiteface will cut between the two trails and label as trails (a la Cloudspin and Skyward)?

2) Please don't widen Empire. It's not as if a wider Empire will alleviate skier congestion, but it will take away a unique trail. I still remember the pre-widening Wilderness, and how much more fun that trail was.

3) 50 acres of glades could be fun, yes, but I hope Whiteface learns how to cut a decent glade. Just cutting some trees isn't enough. Whiteface should hire some trail design consultants to get the most out of the terrain.

4) Widen Niagara? Really? How much wider does it need to be?

5) I was unaware of the so-called 25 mile trail length limit. Before permanently removing trees and making more Whiteface trails increasingly more generic, why not focus on amending the 25 mile limit? If more trails could be cut, but narrower, wouldn't the environmental effect be similar?

Nice post. U make some good points.

[Phineas]

Some observations/thoughts:

1) The parallel trail design is pretty uninspired. Is that really the best that could be done? Anyone want to take bets on how many cat tracks Whiteface will cut between the two trails and label as trails (a la Cloudspin and Skyward)?
answer - none


4) Widen Niagara? Really? How much wider does it need to be? answer - wide enough to host a world cup DH race

5) I was unaware of the so-called 25 mile trail length limit. Before permanently removing trees and making more Whiteface trails increasingly more generic, why not focus on amending the 25 mile limit? If more trails could be cut, but narrower, wouldn't the environmental effect be similar?

answer - Whiteface is Forest Preserve - their was a constitional admendment in the 50s to expand. to go beyond that would require passage of two consecutive Senate/Assenbly and then a vote by all the peoples of the state.....

[highpeaksdrifter]

answer - Whiteface is Forest Preserve - their was a constitional admendment in the 50s to expand. to go beyond that would require passage of two consecutive Senate/Assenbly and then a vote by all the peoples of the state.....

HEY, you don't have to yell. Not everybody knows this stuff backwards and forwards like you. You probably wouldn't either if you didn't have the job you do.