I read in FLAME that work has begun. It didn’t say this in the article, but I’ve heard the cost is 18 million.

Also in FLAME there is an article on Gore. They will have snowmaking on the Sagamore trail this season and work has begun on their “Interconnect” project to the NC Ski Bowl, 5 more trails and a new triple.

I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging.

highpeaksdrifter wrote:

I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging.

i'm discouraged, but not surprised. doesn't seem like it would take alot to string snow making on Hoyt's. money must be tight.

highpeaksdrifter wrote:

I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging.

Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center?

Harvey44 wrote:

highpeaksdrifter wrote: I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging. Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center?

Maybe somebody in the know could post why the money people think Gore projects are capable of bringing more return for the ORDA buck.

NPN wrote:

Harvey44 wrote: highpeaksdrifter wrote: I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging. Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center? Maybe somebody in the know could post why the money people think Gore projects are capable of bringing more return for the ORDA buck.

with all due respect, you gotta be kidding NPN. wait till they order that 9000' long Gondi to run from the BASE of Ski Bowl to the BASE of Gore so the Ski Bowl has access. yep, BASE to BASE, no skiing off of it. oh yeah, the guys on the Gore side of the board also like the proposal to have a Gondi from downtown North Creek to Gore. Whiteface improvement money maybe getting flushed down the Ski Bowl for sometime to come. read the interconnect thread, et al on the Gore side.

Snowballs wrote:

NPN wrote: Harvey44 wrote: highpeaksdrifter wrote: I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging. Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center? Maybe somebody in the know could post why the money people think Gore projects are capable of bringing more return for the ORDA buck. with all due respect, you gotta be kidding NPN. wait till they order that 9000' long Gondi to run from the BASE of Ski Bowl to the BASE of Gore so the Ski Bowl has access. yep, BASE to BASE, no skiing off of it. oh yeah, the guys on the Gore side of the board also like the proposal to have a Gondi from downtown North Creek to Gore. Whiteface improvement money maybe getting flushed down the Ski Bowl for sometime to come. read the interconnect thread, et al on the Gore side.

Yes, and I appreciate the respect ( heartfelt, or not ), but I have to admit, I wasn't kidding.

I'd like somebody, who really gets this, to have the balls to put it out there for all of us to understand ( although I'd bet on Bernie M. joining me for a pop at Steinhof's before that happens ).

I know any number of land/home owners in North Creek who tell me this deal is a sinkhole. So, WTF!!!

Don't get me wrong, I want both areas to exceed all of our expectations, but this situation is about as functional as the NYS Senate.

^^^^what He said!!!^^^^ At last, some other soul who is not a " eyes wide shut yes man".

I'll admit my comment about the conference center was flip. I should have realized this would be an important issue to you guys on this side.

For a variety of reasons I never got to Whiteface this past year. I hadn't really looked at the WF trail map since spring of 07/08. And I wasn't familiar with the trail names associated with Lookout. In a way Hoyt's is the equivalent of Sagamore... the black diamond associated with the new lift. It does seem nuts not to fund the snowmaking there. It's like finishing the project. I'm assuming that Wilmington and/or Lookout Below got snowmaking. True?

(Somewhat unrelated...if someone could direct me to TRs with pictures of the Sugar Valley Glades...would LOVE to look.)

* * *

With regard to Lift 14 and the Gondi to Nowhere at Gore...it hasn't happened yet. It may never happen and can't be considered a waste of money before the money gets spent. The current work, is another modest fixed grip lift servicing some decent (but low altitude) terrain at the Ski Bowl. There's also a flat (some say worthless) connector trail in between the ski bowl and the main mountain. If it doesn't go any farther than that...it won't even make the top 100 most ridiculous things NY has ever spent money on.

I don't think anyone really KNOWS how North Creek will turn out. I'm just hoping for the best. I have to admit that I questioned a few ORDA decisions in the past, that I think, turn out to be pretty good. Topridge was something I was skeptical about - now I really think it's made a really positive difference at Gore. Also I'm impressed with the relentless expansion of tree skiing at Gore. While ORDA technically doesn't do all the work - they certainly permit it.

* * *

The conference center is a huge chunk of cash. It's a big job that will create construction jobs now, and meetings business in a few years when - I'm assuming - the meetings business will come back.

(Anybody in the hospitality business knows that the meetings business, this year, is almost dead in the water. Resort/meeting destinations are shifting all their marketing focus to leisure customers because they are still spending SOMETHING. Nobody wants to be seen spending in this environment. In the industry, the collapse of the meetings business is being called "the AIG effect.")

The timing on the conference center project, to me, looks good. Short term construction jobs now...sustainable industry in 2011 and beyond. I hope I'm right. If the meetings business isn't back by 2011, then we'll have bigger problems than snowmaking on Hoyts.

* * *

I'll keep my wish list for the 09/10 ski season short:

I hope Whiteface and Gore have a great year.

I hope Skiadk is still here when the snow flies.

And I hope I FINALLY get my shot at the slides.

Sorry for the ramble.

NPN wrote:

Snowballs wrote: NPN wrote: Harvey44 wrote: highpeaksdrifter wrote: I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging. Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center? Maybe somebody in the know could post why the money people think Gore projects are capable of bringing more return for the ORDA buck. with all due respect, you gotta be kidding NPN. wait till they order that 9000' long Gondi to run from the BASE of Ski Bowl to the BASE of Gore so the Ski Bowl has access. yep, BASE to BASE, no skiing off of it. oh yeah, the guys on the Gore side of the board also like the proposal to have a Gondi from downtown North Creek to Gore. Whiteface improvement money maybe getting flushed down the Ski Bowl for sometime to come. read the interconnect thread, et al on the Gore side. Yes, and I appreciate the respect ( heartfelt, or not ), but I have to admit, I wasn't kidding. I'd like somebody, who really gets this, to have the balls to put it out there for all of us to understand ( although I'd bet on Bernie M. joining me for a pop at Steinhof's before that happens ). I know any number of land/home owners in North Creek who tell me this deal is a sinkhole. So, WTF!!! Don't get me wrong, I want both areas to exceed all of our expectations, but this situation is about as functional as the NYS Senate.

I know a few landowners in NC and to the contrary I dont think any of them think the expansion is a bad idea.

Here is some info about the redesigned conference

http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise.com/page/content.detail/id/507228.html

tjf67 wrote:

NPN wrote: Snowballs wrote: NPN wrote: Harvey44 wrote: highpeaksdrifter wrote: I heard that ORDA doesn’t have enough money for snow making on Hoyt’s for this season. I find that……discouraging. Maybe we could get by with a 17M conference center? Maybe somebody in the know could post why the money people think Gore projects are capable of bringing more return for the ORDA buck. with all due respect, you gotta be kidding NPN. wait till they order that 9000' long Gondi to run from the BASE of Ski Bowl to the BASE of Gore so the Ski Bowl has access. yep, BASE to BASE, no skiing off of it. oh yeah, the guys on the Gore side of the board also like the proposal to have a Gondi from downtown North Creek to Gore. Whiteface improvement money maybe getting flushed down the Ski Bowl for sometime to come. read the interconnect thread, et al on the Gore side. Yes, and I appreciate the respect ( heartfelt, or not ), but I have to admit, I wasn't kidding. I'd like somebody, who really gets this, to have the balls to put it out there for all of us to unerstand ( although I'd bet on Bernie M. joining me for a pop at Steinhof's before that happens ). I know any number of land/home owners in North Creek who tell me this deal is a sinkhole. So, WTF!!! Don't get me wrong, I want both areas to exceed all of our expectations, but this situation is about as functional as the NYS Senate. I know a few landowners in NC and to the contrary I dont think any of them think the expansion is a bad idea.

Sorry, I just got back in town from the 4th fun, and games.

But I guess, without posting names, and statements, we'll just have to agree to disagree (or not ).

I still think this is all a massive cluster f, but I'm not willing to bend friends, or others to press an already stated point.

Hope you all had a tasty 4th!

i'll 2nd that.^^^

If someone could link to the planning details (I know ORDA has them) I would venture to say that this 18m project will pay for itself in less than 10 yrs.


Why: New york has lots and lots and lots of goverment workers/contract workers. They like conferences, bosses like conferences even better in home state venues. What employees (there are always some) would not want to take a three day venture to LP?


Baltimore Md, conferences are up due to their revamped conference center and "The Inner Harbor" Ok, after 10 minutes of walking, your sight seeing adventure is all the same. Add a ball game when the O's are in town. The rest is super over priced hotels and resturants. Baltimore is 1-2 hour dive from DC and Northern Va----loaded with goverment and contract workers. LPs conference center plan looks great and I believe LP has more "going on"; though I may be bias.

Thus, I feel the conference center will be a boom for LP businesses and local goverment. But a bust for any family wishing to spend a week in the little burg....that used to be a lesser expensive place to ski vacation, which will now cost more. Beers at my local bar used to be $1.00, now that money moved to town, I could (but don't) drop a $5.00. What was free parking 7 years ago is now $26.00 a day. You see....business travellers can expense all of this.

End result---push those skiers to Gore, with the expanded terrain and new, slow, lift to nowhere. They can drive to LP to spend Wednesday afternoon to recouperate before ending the week hard. ORDA is smater than you think, the money stays in the family

Then again, the town of Wilmington may get with it and start expandingto a greater degree. The problem is dynamic, not linear. Which makes prognostication so difficult, expecially at 3:30 am in the summer with snow nowhere in sight.

I:)skiing wrote:

Then again, the town of Wilmington may get with it and start expandingto a greater degree. The problem is dynamic, not linear. Which makes prognostication so difficult, expecially at 3:30 am in the summer with snow nowhere in sight.

I hope they never get with it the way you are implying. I like it the way it is.

highpeaksdrifter wrote:

I:)skiing wrote: Then again, the town of Wilmington may get with it and start expandingto a greater degree. The problem is dynamic, not linear. Which makes prognostication so difficult, expecially at 3:30 am in the summer with snow nowhere in sight. I hope they never get with it the way you are implying. I like it the way it is.

Here, here ( or hear, hear as I got corrected last year ( but still not sure I agree )) BIG TIME!!!