Friday and Saturday

[Denison]

Friday: I had to drive 4 hours, so checked the weather at 4am - it was showing -28 at Saranac Lake , it got warmer by afternoon. Empire was open so I finally did it - quite a few rocks, but it isn't a double black. My 2 Nastar runs is nothing to brag about. Best day of skiing so far.

Saturday: Wasn't bad either. Big thanks to Eric from Snowsports school for a bump lesson, then I was practicing on Lower Parkway - perfect weather for bump skiing.

[Denison]

Halfpipe in great condition:





Friday was good





I won a Chicken Hat!

[Jack the Ripper]

Friday: I had to drive 4 hours, so checked the weather at 4am - it was showing -28 at Saranac Lake , it got warmer by afternoon. Empire was open so I finally did it - quite a few rocks, but it isn't a double black. My 2 Nastar runs is nothing to brag about. Best day of skiing so far.

Saturday: Wasn't bad either. Big thanks to Eric from Snowsports school for a bump lesson, then I was practicing on Lower Parkway - perfect weather for bump skiing.

Who said it was? It's not a double black on the trail map. However, put that run on another mountain and you may have yourself a double black.

[Denison]

there was a discussion some time ago on AZ and Empire was mentioned as another wrongly rated trail...

[highpeaksdrifter]

there was a discussion some time ago on AZ and Empire was mentioned as another wrongly rated trail...

I think Empire should be rated double black and heres way:

First off, all mountains rate their trails relative to all other trails on that mountain.

Let me compare and contrast Empier to 3 other legit blacks at WF; Skyward, Mt. Run and Wilderness.

All 4 trails are pretty steep, but Sky, Mt. Run and Wilderness are wide and open and usually groomed. Empire is as steep, but very narrow and never groomed.

An expert skier can ski all 4 with no problem, but you need to pay closer attention when skiing Empire.

[Face4Me]

I think Empire should be rated double black and heres way:

First off, all mountains rate their trails relative to all other trails on that mountain.

Let me compare and contrast Empier to 3 other legit blacks at WF; Skyward, Mt. Run and Wilderness.

All 4 trails are pretty steep, but Sky, Mt. Run and Wilderness are wide and open and usually groomed. Empire is as steep, but very narrow and never groomed.

HPD, you've hit the nail right on the head ... there's no question about it, Empire RELATIVE to all other trails at Whiteface is in a different class, and therefore needs to have a more difficult rating. You could definitely take an intermediate skier and have them ski Mountain Run, Skyward, etc., but there's no way an intermediate skier is going to be able to get down Empire. The narrowness of the trail just doesn't provide the margin of error.

[freeheelwilly]

For the record: I don't really care as long as we're all skiin' it in thigh to waist deep powder this weekend.

[highpeaksdrifter]

For the record: I don't really care as long as we're all skiin' it in thigh to waist deep powder this weekend.

Yeah, in a rose by any other name kinda way I don't care either. I just think it would make more sense for guests who have never skied at WF before.

[-=koLLac=-]

I agree. To further illustrate the point...my gf skied both Skyward and Mt. Run this past weekend. Nothing to brag about, unless it is your 4th (!!!!!) time on skis in your life. I got her into skiing about two months ago with a decent Rossi 146 racing set up from my friend a former racer. And here she is skiing Skyward showing no respect for the steep. And it isn't a Jersey style uncontrolled descent either (I would not have allowed it to happen if I wasn't sure it was over her head).

Needless to say...I don't think she could ski Empire yet, maybe next year (if she continues at this rate of progress)

[Phineas]

Empire is an intermediate trail that bumps up to an expert trail - there is an extremely short section w/ a pitch that may exceed 25% the rest is flat!