New York money for infrastructure

[x10003q]

I: ) skiing said this about the Highline:
"This walkway (which was slated to be torn down) cost NY 150 Million dollars (that they are reporting) and will likely cost millions more in upkeep, increased security, vandalism etc. They had to sandblast 100% of it to get the lead off the metal. That contractor is likey is buying a new million dollar home at Gore. I particularly enjoyed reading the "this is prohibited" sign. I think the developers were very smart to take photos of the benches and areas before it opened to the public. Those benches look like skateboarder's dreams, note how they the ramp up/down."

I lived at 8th Ave and 15th St in the 1990s. One of the reasons presented to keep the Highline was that it might have cost more to take it down than to fix it. That area was a disaster and it was a dangerous place to walk through at night. One familiar sight were the tranny hookers. These sad souls usually had drug habits and were not above the occasional mugging. Making the Highline into a park was a way to do some creative urban renewal without taking private property. There are not enough parks in this area of NYC and this contributed to the turnaround of the neighborhood. In 10 years the area around the Highline has completely changed for the better (unless you are looking for tranny hookers). There are loads of new businesses and homes. The investment in the Highline has paid off and now we all can enjoy it.

[Adk Keith]

SB,

I would not disagree that there are locations on Gore and Whiteface with wind potential. I would be very careful in intepreting the info from that map for Lake Placid. Zooming out shows that it's zones are artificially set up, not based strictly on data. I suspect that that zone is getting it's data completely from the research station on WF. Downtown LP should not have the same wind potential as the top of WF.

I admit I am not familiar with the Swift. The website says its peak output is 1500 watts at begining at 24.6 miles an hour and up. So the most that one mill will power is a microwave or a blow drier. With a drop in output of 33% for every 10% drop in avg wind. it's not long before you're not making much juice. It seems they have tried to design it to take advantage of dirty wind so it probably has advantages in turbulent locations.

Vertical axis wind mills are great in theory, no need to follow the wind, no yaw losses, etc. Unfortunately from what I understand, they all have problems which differ with each of the designs. Big ones that sit on the gound have problems with differences in wind stresses top to bottom due to differing wind speeds for instance. You are correct that there aren't many. I guess because of their limited success. This is only from what I've read and from talking to others. I have been around them but have no personal experience with them.

My main point is that most people overestimate the wind potential and underestimate the complexity of a wind installation.

The rest of your post I would not dissagree with at all except to include most renewable energy systems with your break even statement. One of the problems with the "system" if you will, is the true costs are only acurately calculated on new technologys. The old technologys are subsidized and impacts are ingnored because it is status quo to the point where their true cost is lost or at least very difficult to figure. Then again, define cost....

[I:)skiing]

x10003q..... I am glad things are taking off in that area. This is the point of the post to debate spending money on infrastructure that to some is a waste of money, or money ill spent, but to others who have dreams and insight....it can get paid back...hence the 6:1 ratio I mentioned.

I would guess or believe that this area is similar to many in Baltimore, Dc and Philly....many neighborhoods took off over the past 10 yrs as realestate inflation allowed folks the opportunity to build on equity of false equity. The Bay or Harbour was the focal point for Baltimore, I am sure the Highline is the focal point for this area. Time will tell in all of these neighborhoods. California is going bankrupt, Mass is not far behind. Baltimore now has the highest tax rates (both property and income) of surrounding areas and a declining property value is moving the young income earners (who drink at the bars with all their other money) out. A rehab town home bought for 40k, rehabed for 100k, was selling for 500k. Now it is on the market for 200k. Without taxes the streets don't get cleaned, the cops stop hanging out and the neighbood reverts.....property values decline more, more folks move out, tax base shrinks further. Back to square one.

Its a compex pie....with lots of slices and causes. Could the 150M have been better spent. We will never know for at least 40 yrs. This point was the debate and call to action to get some of that cash....to spur our (Gore/Northcreek) own area.


The ONLY reason it may have cost more than 150M to tear that down, would be becasue it was goverment who was putting out the bids and perhaps some "influence" who may have owned the companies who would tear it down.

I am all for parks, whereever they are. As noted I would love to take a walk on this one....assuming it says at nice as the photos show.

[I:)skiing]

Windmill debate---perhaps should start a new thread.


I wonder if the 9-10 windmills outside Sommerset Pa were ill placed. I have now been by this area 4 times in 2 years, at best one mill is spinning. Maybe too much wind and they have to shut them down, or not enough to get them spinning. Or maybe there was mfgr defect in that first group. On another web forum page others have also discussed how this pod of mills sits idle.


I have seen some tv video shows where they show windmills that have fallen. Not good. Initially I liked the idea of a windmill on a ski lift tower. However some really good points have been made.

[ComeBackMudPuddles]

windmills will NEVER happen in the park....at least, not in wilderness-designated areas.

[I:)skiing]

The Highline was just featured on the Discovery Channel's show...."Earth Without Man" A show that hypothesises what will happen to our infrastructure when/if man is removed. 1 day, 3 days, 1 week, 1 month, 1 yr, 5 yrs etc....pretty cool show if your into this. Guess the fact that nature took over after about 20 yrs on the Highline gave people insite to spend millions for man to recreate nature taking over.....but in a nicer, prettier way.