Rail to Bicycle trail plan

[Snowballs]

Harv, Thank you for the very kind words! I have some PM's going out to you and Iskiing, don't know if they went out yet. I've received yours, agree and understood. Hopefully mine will reach you soon and answer your ?s.

I absolutely agree w/ADKskier. The best route for NC businesses(which is important!), the cyclists and the trails's popularity would be the tracks all the way into NC. Nothing is written in stone yet. Barton may be just acting as a good neighbor by informing all they "MAY" want to use the lower section sometime in the future. I'm told they have never used it before. They may never use it in the future either. It maybe the Tahawus Bike Trail gets most of the trail length now and the rest later. That happens sometimes. Hopefully not this time.

The Tahawus mine area is Ecologically clean and the crappy industrial buildings have been removed. The old mining ghost town of Adirondack there is/was being turned into a museum. The lakes on the land surrounding the Tahawus mine are clean. It's held in conservatorship that has said it's open to the land surrounding the Tahawus mine becoming a State Park type facility along with the Bike trail.

Wouldn't it be cool taking a shuttle up to Tahawus from North Creek, swim, picnic, etc than hop on the bikes and ride to North Creek!!! The 17 mile gentle downhill cruiser section means even nonathletes could traverse the trail's 29 miles in a few hours if they chose. What a fun ride.......

[Snowballs]

....It's my impression, it's time for mass support and to cut the rug so to speak. There has not been alot of publicity of the trail project. The word needs to get out. Supporters need to be rallied and the Rail Corridor needs to be placed into the protection of the Federal Rail Bank.

That's where we come in. Many of us are active and would use something like this. We love the area. We need to join http://www.upperhudson.org/Upper_Hudson_Rail_Trail/Home. , htmlwhttp://www.facebook.com/pages/Upper-Hudson-Rail-Trail/102812963094737 You can join for free! We will need to speak out to Officals with our support.

I like this Tahawus Bike Trail for many reasons. A huge reason is that it stands to bring much needed business to North Creek and many people will have a very low impact way of enjoying nature and the beautiful ADKS. I like that alot. That is a very good thing. If you agree, and wanna help others, please join the group and help make it happen.

Another huge aspect is the Rail Corridor needs to be placed into the Federal Rail Bank for it's preservation. If it is abandonded by it's current owner, a possiblity, it will revert to the original owners of 100 years ago and/or go "forever wild" never to return again. I'm all for ecology. I'm also all for preserving what very little economical opportunity is left for the towns and people up there. With the Rail Corridor preserved, the possiblity of many things is kept open. The way the Energy and Global Warming issues are going, 50 years from now there maybe monorails/light rail shuttling everyone around instead of hordes of cars. You may need to take a train to the High Peaks instead of driving. The people who live up there may need to take a train to work or civilization instead of driving. Some people who currently live up there, Newcomb, etc, do drive to Glens Falls and such for work now.

[adkskier]

Bear in mind that Barton has no "rights" to use the rail. If they want to use the rail, they'd need to pay NL. NL has previously offered to sell and Barton lost interest when $$ came into the formula. When NL sells the trail rights to the trail group for $1-, they will retain the salvage rights which are estimated to net them $1M. So...the theoretical sale price for the 29 mile rail would be around $1M.

[I:)skiing]

YEP...

If the trail does not START in NC, people will have no reason to stay in the NC area. If you have to drive, what is the diffrence between 10 minutes and 20 minutes from Lake George for example.


One exception: Recently, while my kids were sleeping the car...I tracked some back roads on the otherside of the Hudson, going toward Minerva. Those roads are not extensively travelled like 28. If there were some back roads that could get you back to rail at or after the Gorge Bridge...that might be ok for families. Or at least a partial solution until the "lower" section of track is managed. Not sure how much privite road there is along the river and where it stops.

Blasting money would not come....these trails would have to be ready to go, grade and pave/gravel.

Landowners....just read where similar trails emerge. Your land values go UP. Bikers and runners generally respect nature and have cash.
While I posted about this earlier, bikers and their clubs actually clean up old debris on your and your neighbor's property (read junk) because they dont want to look at it.

[Snowballs]

Another of the many area bike events occurs this weekend, the Ididaride. The Copperfield is rumored to be full booked. Hundreds of Cyclists plus their families are descending on North Creek.

Last week, thousands of cyclists hit Lake George. Each spring and fall, even more riders hit Southern Warren/Washington County for the Tour of the Battenkill. Orda's trying to line up another North Creek area race of hundreds+.

I really think they need to be doing some smart, focused marketing of the area to the bike world. These people will travel in droves. If they knew more about ALL the bike venues at Gore, WF, West Mtn, Lake George/Glens Falls trails, Wilmington trails and BMX park, Lake Champlain Trail and THE TAHAWUS TRAIL and many others, the bike world might view this as a Bike Meca. There is getting to be alot here to offer Cyclists!!! PLUS all the lakes and nature, this crowd loves that stuff. We all do.

This is an important aspect of the area's future tourist growth, Day and extended tourism.

http://www.ididaride.org/

[Snowballs]

Bike tourism facts....

http://poststar.com/article_f2459788...cc4c03286.html

[Snowballs]

The Adirondack Explorer is a non-profit newsmagazine devoted to the protection and enjoyment of the Adirondack Park.
http://www.adirondackexplorer.org/stories/bikepath.php - has pics and map.
September/October 2010

Getting off the track
What must be done to create a world-class bike path in the Adirondacks.
By ALAN WECHSLER
Someday, the Adirondacks could boast of a tourist attraction not found anywhere else in the East: a long-distance rail-trail that would enable bicyclists to take multiday trips through protected wild lands.

The route could be used by others as well: trail runners, hikers, and, in winter,
snowmobilers.

The rail-trail could extend as many as eighty miles, starting in Thendara, near Old Forge, and ending in Tupper Lake, Saranac Lake, or Lake Placid. Along the way it would traverse remote tracts of the forever-wild Forest Preserve and pass by hamlets that could see a boost in tourism.

OK, don’t get excited: this remains theoretical. But those familiar with rail-trail projects say it could happen—if state and local leaders back the idea, if Adirondack residents push for it, and if sufficient public and private funds can be obtained.

Backers of such a project would have to contend with the Adirondack Scenic Railroad, which runs a sightseeing train from Lake Placid to Saranac Lake and hopes to extend the trip to Tupper Lake. The railroad uses the rest of the track twice a year to reach its garage in Utica and hopes to one day bring rail traffic to the entire line.

A lot to consider. But rail-trail success stories around the nation show two things:

First, rail-trails are an economic boon. A multiday trail such as the 150-mile Great Allegheny Passage in Pennsylvania or the 225-mile Katy Trail in Missouri can attract tens of thousands of users each season. And, even on smaller routes, businesses follow: bed and breakfasts, bike-rental and repair shops, restaurants, museums, art galleries, shuttle services, etc.

Second, building rail-trails can take time. The Great Allegheny Passage took thirty years from conception to completion. But once a groundswell of support begins to grow, it’s hard to stop.

In the Adirondacks, a short rail-trail already exists connecting Lake George to Glens Falls, but the ten-mile route is primarily a local attraction (the route is also badly advertised to visitors, and the entrances at either end are hard to find).


Farther north, a grass-roots effort is under way to promote a rail-trail from North Creek to Tahawus. The Friends of the Upper Hudson Rail-Trail, which recently held its first meeting, is talking with railroad owner NL Industries about taking over the property. But at twenty-nine miles, the route would be a bit short to be on the national radar. Also, its northern terminus lies in the wilderness, far from ammenities.

In contrast, train corridor between Thendara and Lake Placid offers the opportunity to create a world-class rail-trail. The whole line hasn’t been used commercially since the 1970s, when the state took it over from New York Central. Today, Adirondack Scenic operates two trains: one out of Thendara along the Moose River, which takes in about three-fourths of the nonprofit company’s revenue, and one between Lake Placid and Saranac Lake, which has proved less popular. (It also runs short trips north of Thendara.)

The line is maintained mostly by the railroad, but New York State reimburses the company for the work, a cost that runs into the hundreds of thousands of dollars each year. Despite the state’s fiscal climate, state Department of Transportation officials say no one is considering discontinuing maintenance of the track.

In between the two train routes are about seventy miles of wilderness rail, passing by lakes, wetlands, and forests. If the stretch from Thendara, just south of Old Forge, to Saranac Lake were converted to a trail, the Adirondacks could lay claim to one of the longest wilderness bike paths in the nation. And if it reached Lake Placid—which some local officials would like to see—the trail would be eighty miles long and start and end in two of the most-visited tourist towns in the Park.

Is it worth it? Around the nation, backers of other rail-trails say it is.
Take the 150-mile Great Allegheny Path (see sidebar). Between Cumberland, Maryland, and Pittsburgh was an abandoned rail line. There were more than a dozen huge trestles that required decking and the three-thousand-foot-long Big Savage Tunnel, which had water pouring down from the ceiling in numerous places. “We called it the ‘car wash,’” said Linda Boxx of the Allegheny Trail Alliance, which began promoting a rail-trail more than thirty years ago.


It took three decades, but volunteers eventually raised $65 million to acquire various sections of rail and rehab the tunnel and trestles. Once finished, trails were handed over to local governments to maintain.

“We went after lots of grants, state and federal opportunities, private foundations, broad appeals to the general public,” she said. “It’s a continual job to raise the money.”

Today, the Allegheny Passage is one of the most well-known rail-trails in the country. Last year, the path brought in about $40 million from cycling tourists, mostly from lodging and food purchases, said Boxx.

The Katy Trail, named after the Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad, which was often referred to as the K-T, is a 225-mile route that will eventually link St. Louis with Kansas City, extending across all of Missouri. The trail attracts about three hundred thousand users annually, including more than ten major group tours.

“There’s definitely an economic impact,” said Judd Slivka, a spokesman for the Missouri Department of Natural Resources. “If you go to Rocheport [a popular trailhead] on a summer day, you’ll see the trail has hundreds of people on it. The trailside café is always packed.”

Pennsylvania’s Pine Creek rail-trail, which is sixty-two miles in length, earns $3 million to $5 million per year for the local economy, according to the Rails-to-Trails Conservancy, a national advocacy group. Other rail trails around the country also have proved to have economic benefit.

Closer to home, the Erie Canal Towpath is not a rail-trail per se, but it is a cycling route from Buffalo to Albany, most of which is on a path. Hundreds of cyclists use parts of the route every day. Each July, five hundred people cycle the trail west to east as part of a group tour. Some towns send out staffers to greet the riders and make suggestions for lunch stops.

Such is the impact of a group of folks on two wheels. Bicycling, after all, generates quite an appetite.

So what would it take to turn the Adirondacks’ longest section of (mostly) unused railroad track into a bike trail?

First step: build support. The state Department of Transportation, which owns the rail, expects to begin updating the master plan for the corridor in the next year or two. (It was first written in 1996.) As the plan is developed, rail-trail advocates will have their chance to be heard—by writing letters, speaking at public hearings, and otherwise arguing that a rail-trail is better for the region than a railroad.

Officials in Lake Placid already have called for replacing the tracks between their village and Saranac Lake with a bike path. Snowmobilers also support getting rid of the tracks, which prohibit sled use when snow is low. They say removal of the tracks would lead to a big boost in snowmobile tourism. Presumably, bicyclists and other recreational users also would get behind the idea.

Of course, there would be opponents. The Adirondack Scenic Railroad has visions of revitalizing the entire line. And Tupper Lake has rebuilt its depot with the idea of expanding the Lake Placid tourist train.

The next step: permits. The Adirondack Park Agency already issued permits four years ago to create a bike path that would run parallel to the Lake Placid-Saranac Lake tracks. Building a new path beside the tracks proved too costly, but the APA’s approval of the project suggests the agency is not averse to creating bike paths that run through the Forest Preserve.

A long-distance trail from Thendara to Lake Placid would require new permits from the APA, along with public hearings. In addition, the state Department of Environmental Conservation and possibly the Army Corps of Engineers would need to be involved (the latter because of wetlands and stream crossings).

Actually, the federal government would have primary jurisdiction over a rail-trail project due to a 1983 law that allows for “railbanking.” The purpose of the law is to preserve right-of-ways for future use by railroads. “It’s a unique, and somewhat complex, mix of federal and state law,” said DEC spokeswoman Lori Severino.

Third step: get rid of the tracks. This is not as expensive as it might seem. In fact, it would likely cost taxpayers nothing. The state might even realize a small profit: the value of the steel rails is high enough that salvage companies would bid for the right to remove them, even though steel prices are not as high as they once were.

“Once the owner decided to sell, we can cut a check within a couple of days and start working within two weeks,” said Jason Feagans, railroad division manager at National Salvage & Service Corp. The Indiana company has undertaken a number of rail-salvage jobs around the country. Barring unforeseen problems, Feagans estimates that his crews could clear the Adirondack line in under two years.

National Salvage uses a variety of heavy machines, including excavators, boom trucks, skid loaders, and bulldozers. It has wood chippers to chop up the ties if they are too rotten for reuse. The machinery could be brought in over the rail line (or the bed, once the rails are removed), leaving the adjacent forest unmolested. In fact, heavy machinery already is brought in yearly to do maintenance on the line.

Fourth step: construct the trail. After the salvage operation, the rail bed will be left as a smooth dirt path. Many modern long-distance bike trails are covered with stone dust, a finely ground stone sand laid down by a machine and packed by a small steamroller. Once tamped, it’s as hard-packed as a dirt road—but it won’t turn into mud after a rainstorm. While not ideal for racing bikes, a stone-dust trail is great for mountain bikes and hybrid bikes and creates a rustic feel in a way that asphalt does not.

Covering a trail with stone dust costs around $150,000 per mile (as opposed to $250,000 per mile for asphalt), according to the Upper Hudson group. For an eighty-mile trail, that works out to $12 million. Granted, that’s not exactly pocket change, especially given the sorry state of New York’s finances. But with fund raising, corporate donations, grants, and the help of local governments, it’s doable. Keep in mind that the Allegheny folks raised $65 million. In New York, we already own the property and we have no expensive tunnels or giant trestles to rehabilitate.

Once the trail is built, who would maintain it? The Great Allegheny Passage is kept up by the counties who benefit from the sales-tax revenue. The Katy Trail, however, is maintained by the state of Missouri. Perhaps the Adirondack trail could be maintained through a partnership of New York State and local counties. Volunteers also could chip in, picking up litter and conducting safety patrols. They might even perform bike repairs on busy weekends (which would be sure to generate positive word-of-mouth).

While cyclists might salivate at the possibilities, the Adirondack Scenic Railroad has different plans. Chairman Bill Branson said the railroad had a good season last year in spite of a bad economy. This summer, the company expects to accommodate its millionth customer.

Branson doubts that rail-trail advocates will get their way. “It’s a historic corridor,” he said. “No one’s going to be in a hurry to rip it up. I just don’t think it’s a practical question.”

The railroad hopes to expand its southern tourist route north to Big Moose and the northern route to Tupper Lake sometime in the future. In the longer term, it would like to rehabilitate the entire line and perhaps lure freight and passenger trains back to the Adirondacks.

Branson said engineers estimate that it would cost $32 million to restore the line between Thendara and Tupper Lake and $6 million to restore the section between Tupper and Saranac Lake. The railroad hopes to for state and federal aid to help pay for the work. “There’s more potential in developing it than not,” he said.

Branson has a point in that most rail-trails are built on abandoned rail beds, not ones still in use (even if that use is seasonal). Nevertheless, in a region dependent on tourists, a rail-trail north of the successful Old Forge line offers tantalizing potential.

In early June, the North Elba Town Board agreed to hire a consulting firm to investigate the comparative benefits of a rail-trail versus the train. “I’m going to be amazed if the findings don’t indicate that the railroad’s a boondoggle,” said Supervisor Roby Politi.

If Politi is right, the study could persuade more people, including perhaps the decision-makers in Albany, to get behind a bikeway proposal.

[Snowballs]

Tour de Farm....another area bike tour. http://poststar.com/news/local/artic...cc4c03286.html

Too bad it poured down rain all last night and all day today. Hearty souls to be riding today. We woosed out on the Quad riding.

Washington county has some primo farmland, especially in the southern part. There's a huge, very wide and very long valley (forgot it's name) that is a virtural cornicopia. Driving it's length in late summer you'll see large farm after large farm for miles and miles, their fields planted border to border just bursting with crops, all doing very well with large yields. Always makes me feel good.....The Bounty of the Land. It's a blessing.

Some farmers here did good this year. Most had extra cuttings of hay. That's good cash money in cow country. Apple crop is good and it's ready early. The very popular Hick's orchard in Granville started making excellent apple wines a few seasons ago. It's very, very good. Award winning.

If you like dinner, ya gotta love the farmers.

There's just a touch of color in the leaves here and there.

[I:)skiing]

Just found this trail. Have not ridden it yet, but will next time up.


Warren County Bike Trail--Google it. 17 miles. Pavement and Road--what appears to be about 12 miles of off road pavement. It also connects with a gravel trail. Good website with maps.

[Snowballs]

It is a nice trail. Depending on how far you wanna ride and how old your riders are, it's cool to start at the Lake George end. There a longish ascent which is fun to descend on the return trip.The two mile downhill is a fun end to the ride. In Glens Falls,Dix avenue, it passes Cooper's Cave Ice cream shop- fuel up! The rest of the trail is flatish. I know you'll have wee ones with you.