Snowmaking

[jmokes]

Harv, I gotta agree with jimmer a little bit here...though i appreciate your efforts as much as anyone's but sometimes things simply don't add up. I've spent some time with mike, in person, on the phone, via e mail, etc. & it's apparent to me that he's under some ORDA/court order not to say a word about the budget cuts, employee cuts, etc. for fear of getting his head cut off. I've also emailed teddy blazer, who i think is the real culprit in all of this & that cat refuses to answer anything & pushes it all downhill (no pun intended) to mike. Can mike make better decisions or communicate better? sure, who couldn't but a lot of this is b.s. They've blown way more snow in the past & had more terrain open with the same lack of cooperation from the weather.

i've been climbing all over them for the paid parking crap i.e. "skiers against paid parking @ gore" fb, a few articles in the local papers, gore paid parking helmet stickers, etc. If they're gonna whack the avg joe skier for another ten spot to park like a rock star then i want okemo snow & grooming & all my lifts turning on a friday. I'm already paying the same $$$. If they're not able to upgrade the snowmaking along with all of the new terrain, maybe they should put a halt on all of this development that's costing millions. if they spend all that money & the condiditons suck, chances are the people they're trying to attract will never come back if they're skiing on boiler plate in early january. and gore is getting absoultely crushed on skireport.com.

slow & steady wins the race...this isn't a sprint. snowmaking should be improved in concert with new trails opening. otherwise, whats the point???

[jmokes]

Harv, I gotta agree with jimmer a little bit here...though i appreciate your efforts as much as anyone's but sometimes things simply don't add up. I've spent some time with mike, in person, on the phone, via e mail, etc. & it's apparent to me that he's under some ORDA/court order not to say a word about the budget cuts, employee cuts, etc. for fear of getting his head cut off. I've also emailed teddy blazer, who i think is the real culprit in all of this & that cat refuses to answer anything & pushes it all downhill (no pun intended) to mike. Can mike make better decisions or communicate better? sure, who couldn't but a lot of this is b.s. They've blown way more snow in the past & had more terrain open with the same lack of cooperation from the weather.

i've been climbing all over them for the paid parking crap i.e. "skiers against paid parking @ gore" fb, a few articles in the local papers, gore paid parking helmet stickers, etc. If they're gonna whack the avg joe skier for another ten spot to park like a rock star then i want okemo snow & grooming & all my lifts turning on a friday. I'm already paying the same $$$. If they're not able to upgrade the snowmaking along with all of the new terrain, maybe they should put a halt on all of this development that's costing millions. if they spend all that money & the condiditons suck, chances are the people they're trying to attract will never come back if they're skiing on boiler plate in early january. and gore is getting absoultely crushed on skireport.com.

slow & steady wins the race...this isn't a sprint. snowmaking should be improved in concert with new trails opening. otherwise, whats the point???

[Snowballs]

omg,what a load of crap,i relize u been trying too get answers,but youve fallen for every thing ole mike p has laid on you,hey mikes a nice enuff guy,and hard too get mad at,but he definatly has too come up with something to say,the guy could sell fur coats at a peta convention for christ sake,hes got more excuses,,,as for waste what are they wasting? water,i dont think the hudsons going to dry up any time soon,man power,dont have enuff,get some.ive seen them blow more than 1 trail at a time many times b4,theres something going on this year thats has not been the norm in years past,,snow making is part of the game here in the east.im more than willing too ride this out,and see what happens,and im not even going too bitch about it,after all the skiing has been getting better,but i will never believe the excuses and there reasons for there short commings this year.btw there was not 1 gun blowin today,nor were they fixen the mess that was on the rumor.

AT LAST! A voice of reason, a man with a pair. Hurray for Jimmer! Anybody besides Jimmer and I realize how incredibly stupid all that Pratt Splat was?

Plenty of - dozens and dozens - make that hundreds and hundreds of other ski resorts blow tons of trails all the time without all the BS excuses Pratt makes. Pratt charges as much $$$ as they do. Why is it they can snow cover their mtns good and Pratt can't? Pratt has ABSOLUTELY HUGE cost advantages WITH HIS TAX FREE business model and NO mortgage or NO improvements to pay for, he still can't do a basic minimum job.

"There's no desire to mislead. Gore is smart enough to know it isn't productive and it doesn't further their goals." says Harv.

Is that right? Yet they do it all the time! Last week they repeatedly lied about how many trails they were blowing. Repeatedly...as in deliberately. The Echo thing? Even i knew it wasn't skiable and posted such before hand. It wasn't skiable because they never blew it. Gore Knew it too. ADKskier excuses this Echo fiasco with the " top was like a glacier." It didn't get that way over night ADK! and The saddle is frequently glacier yet it stays open. Same with Hawkeye's headwall. They never blew Echo, that's why it didn't open.

Right now, West Mtn has 10 times better snow than Gore. How bad is that? West has none of the huge cost advantages Gore has. NONE.

Last year at an ORDA meeting, I heard Pratt myself say that they have " an increased ability to blow more of the mtn simultaineously." Was he lying then or is he lying now? The NOmaking system is already supposed to upgraded. Done. Finished. Now BR is online and Pratt can't even cover the older trails. The only snow job he's good at is dropping a load on Harvey Road. Then Harv shovels it our way. Thanks Harv.

I gotta ask Harv, are you becoming an Organ of Gore propaganda? It's Minister of Misinformation? Last week you posted a bunch of tripe from Emily on how disrespectful Gore customers led Gore to closed down their FB discusion tabs. You had an example here to the exact contrary, an example of Gore being disrepectful to customers like Jimmer (who related it himself and i witnessed it) and Gore booting Jimmer/them out of FB for no reason....DID YOU RELATE THAT STORY ON HARVEY ROAD?

Like Jimmer, I'm not gonna lay down and listen to endless lies, insults, BS and Excuses when there is ample empirical evidence to the contrary.

[ka2kci]

As I mentioned in the Nomaking thread, I have a very reliable source at Gore who has confirmed that there is an equipment problem with the Atlas pump that has cut their snowmaking capacity by one half. They are still waiting for a replacement part from Sweden. Why doesn't Mike tell us this? Because many of us are season's pass holders who will probably show up anyway. A marketing friend explained it to me...it would hurt their bottom line if they admitted that they aren't up to snuff this year since many of their holiday customers don't ski that many days. They don't care about the locals or the pass holders because they're betting that we'll show up anyway. Either way the continued denying that there is a problem makes us assume that the problem is incompetence rather than equipment. In this day of instant messaging, on mountain reports, facebook and twitter, it is hard for the mountain to keep on lying to us without being called out on it. The expansion to the Ski Bowl and even Burnt Ridge is meaningless if they can't even manage what they had before. Most of my non-passholder friends are going to Vt. since they are currently getting a lot more for thier dollars. I wish that the mountain would just come clean and point out to the powers-that-be that something has to change if they really want to run with the big dogs.

[Snowballs]

me too. it wasn't the janitor either. Pratt said on Harvey Road it costs $3000 a day to operate the High Peaks Chair.... what a joke !

MORE GORED!

They are on the absolute brink of losing their customers.....just as they are trying to become a "Destination Resort" and the State is going bankrupt. Anybody at Gore see what's wrong with this picture? Here's the deal. The State's not gonna give you any more money and you're gonna lose your customers.

Now they're running TV commercials announcing there's snowmaking on Sags! Won't the destination Customers be bummed when it doesn't open. Oh wait....they'll just go to Vermont. OK.....Won't we be bummed when Sags doesn't open.

[TomCat]

I think Harv is just trying to relay info he's been able to obtain. He's been able to get Gore management to talk by trying to be reasonable. I'd like to thank him for providing the info. We can all decide for ourselves if we believe it or not. I don't doubt that Pratt's hands are tied to some extent from the higher ups.

I do think a fair followup question is how Gore is planning to handle the new terrain. This year's major improvement on the hill is snowmaking on sagamore. MLK weekend is approaching and it doesn't sound like a single gun was fired there. What's the poing of installing snowmaking if it's not used?

I would suggest that Gore should drop their ticket prices to compensate customers. I have friends that spent $74 to ski christmas week. They don't feel like they got their money's worth.

As far as the weather is concerned, while we haven't reveived much snow, snow making conditions have been excellent for weeks. If it's true that guns were off yesterday, that's inexcusable. Temps are expected to warm up in another week.

tom

[adkskier]

Snowmaking on Twins Fawns today and it didn't start until mid-day.

[Harvey44]

Goofy and Sponge… I’m not the best at detecting sarcasm on the internets, but I’ll take it at a face value and say thanks.

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I’ve got a ton of respect for Jimmer. He knows the mountain as good or better than anyone. Not just the terrain and secrets. The staff, the personalities and what makes the place run. He speaks his mind, forcefully but IMO without malice.

No question that Mike is a salesman. (I practically peed my pants on the PETA crack!) I think he has to be – he’s the focal point in between two important groups that he’s trying to keep happy. He’s selling to both sides. If I had Mike’s job, I’d do the same thing – try to put my best foot forward.

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Jmokes – I think you’re doing a good job leading the vocal opposition. You’ve brought some innovative ideas and methods to the issue.

I know you’re a new skiadk member – but not sure if you were a lurker around here last year or not.

If you do a search on topic title “Gold Parking” you’ll find the current thread, and an older thread from last year that I started. I was one of the most vocal on the board on the topic. While a lot of things bothered me about it, the fact that it was proposed after the pass deadline, and during an economic meltdown ... it felt really wrong to me. I tried to lead the revolution last year – in all honesty I was over the top. More heat than light. MattChuck called me out, and I think he was right to do so.

This year I tried another approach. More listening, less talking. I think there is a place for both approaches.

I’ll admit it – it felt good to sit with Mike and have him listen to a passholder point of view on both parking and snowmaking. Maybe it was total BS and he was thinking about his golf game and just nodding. Who knows. But I do think showing the basic respect that every person deserves, helps you be heard.

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Snowballs – Not sure what to say. I’ve learned a lot from you. You are incredibly perceptive and freakin hilarious at times.

With regard to paid parking - I think a lot of the friction comes from a feeling that … if you are going to charge like the big dogs you’ve got to blow snow like them too. From a cost standpoint, Gore’s day prices are as high as anyone’s. But I still think the early deadline full pass is one of the best deals out there. $699 – it only takes about 12 days to pay it off.

And I still stick to the idea that nobody was trying to trick anybody into coming to Gore by promising Echo. I know for a fact that Emily was sick over the mistake in the trail report. Anyone who saw Echo late in the day on Friday knew it wasn’t happening the next day. Communication is definitely an area that needs more work.

I've always assumed you're a passholder. If not please disregard the following. One thing I don’t understand is why you bought a Gore/ORDA pass this year. You clearly understand the issues and weaknesses at Gore. You’re in a good location for hitting Kmart or Central VT. The snowmaking and natural snowfall over there are far beyond what we’ve got at Gore.

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For what it's worth - I didn’t start out intending to do an “interview.” I just wanted to go in a find out what the heck was going on. When I was in Emily’s office it occurred to me that you guys might want to hear what I was hearing. I was surprised by the amount of time they gave me. I thought it would make interesting reading. Clearly I’m not a journalist, and it shows. I’ve made a bunch of mistakes in that role.

I tried to ask Mike and Emily questions I thought were important. I just reread both parts again, and I don’t see myself agreeing or disagreeing with much of what was said. Maybe people assume that if you write it down, you are buying into all of it.

I ski Gore for a lot of reasons. One of the biggest is that I love North Creek and the southern Adks. That’s no secret. I’d really like to live there some day. I'm hoping I'll being skiing Gore until I’m 100 years old. No matter what the snowmaking or parking is like. I just can’t see owning property in Vt. I probably couldn’t afford it either.

Harvey Road started as a place to keep pictures and memories. It’s something I love doing, and I’m not going to stop. Maybe those offended by it, will be more comfortable if I stop posting links to it here. That way if you’re interested, you can bookmark it and check it out. And if you’re not interested, you can more easily avoid it. I haven't decided if I'll take Mike up on his offer for more updates. If I do, I'll keep them on HR and avoid posting links here.

I recently posted a disclaimer on HR said something like…. “just because I had fun, doesn’t mean conditions were good.” I like skiing and I like skiing Gore. It doesn’t mean I think Gore is the best mountain measured by a bunch of objective criteria.

Anyway … if I’ve added to the stress that was not my intent. Apologies to anyone I’ve offended.

[adksara]

Anyway … if I’ve added to the stress that was not my intent. Apologies to anyone I’ve offended.

Nope, no stress here. I appreciate the time that you took to sit down (and ski after!) both Emily & Mike. I'll be skiing around on Friday and hope to see some serious guns going, but it sounds like the issues with their equipment and terrain to be covered is a bit much at the moment... I'd like it if they'd just say that, but who knows... they may be getting pressure of the 'all is well' from higher up.

... so I'm going to put the ipod in the ears, skis on the ground and enjoy the trails of Gore that I do love.

[Snowballs]

[quote="Harvey44"]
[quote]Snowballs – And I still stick to the idea that nobody was trying to trick anybody into coming to Gore by promising Echo. I know for a fact that Emily was sick over the mistake in the trail report. [quote]

OH? is that all it was,huh? She was so sick she or others couldn't correct it Friday on their web page or Facebook? Poor dear.

It was harvly a mere trail reporting mistake. It was harvly a mistake when they repeatedly claimed NOmaking on 7 trails and only blowing 2. harvly.

[quote]I've always assumed you're a passholder. If not please disregard the following. One thing I don’t understand is why you bought a Gore/ORDA pass this year. You clearly understand the issues and weaknesses at Gore. You’re in a good location for hitting Kmart or Central VT. The snowmaking and natural snowfall over there are far beyond what we’ve got at Gore.[quote]

I go to Gore cuz it's half the distance than those other hills you mentioned. over 30-50 days a year, that really adds up. Also , you get two hills with a Gore pass. One thing i don't understand is why you don't apply that very same reasoning to everybody else here - INCLUDING YOURSELF! Hmmm? You said yourself you were "over the top" on PP.

Physician...take thy own medicine!

I reserve and will use my right to point out Gore's and it's " yes men's " glaring shortcomings.

It is morally wrong and insulting for Gore to continually shortchange it's Customers and then a tell bunch of Lies and BS to cover their tracks and blame their Customers. Too bad you don't see that.

If you're gonna insist on smoozing up Pratt's and helping them deceive people with double talk like.....

[quote]I just reread both parts again, and I don’t see myself agreeing or disagreeing with much of what was said.[quote]

What the hell is that!

There are some with enough cahoonas to challenge that mumbo jumbo in defence of ourselves and the many other Customers getting short changed and ill treatment by Gore and it's yes men. Gore won't change on it's own accord. That will require people standing up, not laying down.

For you Newbies here, Harv and i sometimes spar like this.