Search and Rescue

[fujative.]

That's why I assumed the move towards Rte 8 was intentional.

Bingo. There a certain amount of buzz abour going that way." Always Completely " untouched pow blah blah...so to speak. People do purposely go over the hill.

I don't think people go over the hill intentionally. There is a ridge there where if you know where you're going you're right on top of it, and there are a few different places to drop in, heading down towards Chatiemac glades/Tannery. I think the people who get lost are the ones who see people "sneaking in", and decide it's a good idea to follow to see where it leads. The selfish/greedy part comes in where everyone drops down towards the Tannery area, and people see fresh powder if they continue going straight. There's a reason people aren't going that way, because that takes you down the backside of the mountain. Once a person heads down the wrong way, people start following tracks, and that's how they get lost. It's similar to the outter boundaries of Timbuktu for those who are familiar with Jay. If you don't get out by the "last chance" markers, you're skiing down to the road. The only difference is there is a hell of a lot longer to go to route 8 than the access road for Jay.

I'm almost positive there is no way to get to route 8 if you go into Chatiemac glades through the marked entrance. it would take a whole lot of hiking uphill to get over the ridge. They must have seen someone going in the upper entrance (or just the tracks), got curious, and followed in.

If I was to ever ski an unmarked glade (which I would never do, that's bad), There is no way I'd go in alone. Especially when it's something on the edge of the mountain boundaries and if I wasn't with anyone familiar with where they were going.

[Snowballs]

What Fuj said makes a lot of sense, he's very level headed. But fwiw, over the years I have talked to people who've " gone over " intentionally. Yea, I know....why? A few others onced mentioned " how cool " it would be to go that route. I did advise against it as Patrol seems to be out there bringing them back too often, rescues that go very late into the night. Not fair to Patrol and not cool. Sadly, some day someone may get hurt/die and then the door may shut on other in bound areas people hold dear.

Come to think of it, the people who were talking about going over seemed surprised when I told them there was no way back to Gore and a very long way out to the road.

Everybody should listen to the radio link ADKskier posted on the rescue. It gives a good idea what kinda dangerous mess the skiers got themselves into and how much effort and risk the rescuers faced in saving them. Climbing around the steeps and deep snow through thick ground cover is never easy or without risk esp. at night.

Good thing it wasn't wicked cold. Those young kids are lucky not to be at least frostbiten and prolly had a very good scare. Bet Momma was glad to see them, huh?!!

I think sometimes people come up here and assume they got all the protections they would have at Disney.

Thanks ADKSkier for the info and the radio link. Interesting and very informative.

Thanks to Patrol and the Rangers for being there and saving the day. GREAT JOB GUYS!!!

[jimmer]

absolutley,,bravo too the patrol,,on of witch was a girl,tara,who stayed with them,bringing food and water,diggen a pit,and getting them warm,while the other went back for help,there lucky too have made it,,i dont think they even made it too the ridge for some reason they just went down the back side,,,guys an idiot,plain and simple,there is no excuse,when kids r involved,,,and your rite,its things like this that will ruin it for the others,,and btw the guy is an idiot,

[AdironRider]

People may get mad, but.....

I always felt that it is selfish to ski yourself into these positions. Why not just stick to the approved glades and in bound trees? When you go OOB and people have to come find you it puts others in danger just because of your little joy ride. It also costs money and is a large amount of effort for many people. If you say it's only some money then I would invite you to get your check book out.

People who do these things need to be more considerate of others.

So let me get this straight, its selfish to go out skiing OB because two people this winter went full retard and got lost? Thats like saying its selfish to drive because of how many people have to help you when you get in a car accident. Dont lump me and the other responsible backcountry users because some weekender from Jersey (no offense Harv, you know who Im really referring to ) got lost with his two kids. I think its pretty clear Snowballs you dont ski OB, and probably dont see why us responsible users enjoy it. Fine, different strokes for different folks, but Im not being selfish.

Sounds to me like this guy took his kids out into the glades to skiers right of Chatiamac and got lost. It happens. That glade traverses out a ways, then you have to cut back to get back onto a true piste. Guy probably didnt think he was really going into more than a glade, and how much you want to make a bet there was already a bunch of traffic heading out that way?

Stuff happens, and frankly, ski patrol and SAR know what theyre doing, its part of their JOB. I hate the whole argument that it puts them in danger. Really, you dont think they havent gone through hundreds of hours of training, etc and didnt know the risks? Theres a reason they go out on SAR missions and you dont. They took the job, and frankly probably enjoy the hell out of it, cause it sure isnt making them rich. I value their skill and ability highly, but its a sad fact that someone needs to be there that knows what to do, and these type of accidents are going to happen. Id much rather have a fully trained staff of the willing and able to help people out than nobody and they end up dead.

Snowballs, you would probably have a heart attack if you saw the skiing that goes down OB here in Jackson. And responsible backcountry users should always have a shovel, probe, and beacon, not a goddamn flashlight. Learn up on what it really takes to go OB before you start saying its their own fault for not having a flashlight skiing, when was the last time you skied with a flashlight?

Being scared of the OB is only going to make things worse if you end up out there. I highly recommend getting educated if it bothers you so much.

[Snowballs]

People may get mad, but.....

I always felt that it is selfish to ski yourself into these positions.

People who do these things need to be more considerate of others.

The gist is irresponsible people. Like those who choose to take young kids into areas that have no way back to the resort, underprepared, over their head, and not knowing the route they're taking. People who enter the woods late, etc.

So yeah, that is selfish behavoir. No doubt you're very well practiced in it.

[AdironRider]

Fact: Irresponsibility is always going to exist in some form, you just need to learn to deal with it in the best possible way.

I caught that that was your general point, hence why I said its a sad fact that we have to have search and rescue, but Im real happy we do. This guy and his kids would probably be dead otherwise.

You think he planned on getting lost? Im sure you've been lost someplace before, you plan on doing it? I bet you were pretty happy when someone helped you find your way.

But you have failed to see my point in that you're getting on a high horse and preaching all these things that you think are irresponsible (like saying they should have had a flashlight) when you dont know what you're talking about. Carrying a flashlight OB but having no shovel, beacon, or probe, is not the way to go about things. You can armchair quarterback all you want but know what you're talking about first.

You're making scared statements. Learn what it takes to ski properly in the backcountry and its just as safe, if not safer than skiing in bounds.

Stop being selfish yourself and open your eyes before you criticize others for doing things you don't know or understand.

Just to clarify, Im not saying this guy didnt screw up, but snowballs and others are hinting that he knowingly went and tried to get lost. Im sure this guy has learned his lesson.

Part of what makes America great is freedom. Cant stop the guy from skiing down public land, you just need to be prepared for the worst that could happen.

[Harvey44]

Not sure if you guys had seen this. More details:

http://www.poststar.com/news/local/a...cc4c03286.html

[Harvey44]

This story amazes me.

The amount of training, dedication and ENERGY required to pull something like this off, in the dark, is incredible.

Hats off to those responsible.

[Frostillicus]

But you have failed to see my point in that you're getting on a high horse and preaching all these things that you think are irresponsible (like saying they should have had a flashlight) when you dont know what you're talking about. Carrying a flashlight OB but having no shovel, beacon, or probe, is not the way to go about things. You can armchair quarterback all you want but know what you're talking about first.

I can see the need for a beacon and probe out West, or in more extreme backcountry in the East, but a beacon and probe in the Gore sidecountry? Just wondering, as someone who skis sidecountry but not backcountry, what good would the probe and beacon do if someone went off the ridge? From how far away can an avy beacon be detected? Would an emergency whistle be just as important in that situation? Not looking for an argument, just more curious than anything.


I don't think that this applies to anyone here, but if you don't know where those tracks heading into the woods lead, DON'T FOLLOW THEM!

[Snowballs]

Would an emergency whistle be just as important in that situation?


I don't think that this applies to anyone here, but if you don't know where those tracks heading into the woods lead, DON'T FOLLOW THEM!

Whistles are very important. A must have. I've read more than one incident where they saved the day.

Don't know if these individuals had this other MUST HAVE!, but people need to carry Fire. Life saving warmth, it's visible from Aircraft, illuminates the night darkness and you can always have the neighbors over for BBQ and Smores.