State Wants to Zero Out the ORDA Budget!

[adkskier]

Privatization has been brought up several times. I believe the last serious attempt was during the Cuomo years. In reality, we'd all probably fare better if the legislature would lease Gore and Whiteface (Belleayre too) to private operators. As skiers and riders, we'd likely get a better skiing experience. A private entity could invest major capital into improvements more quickly and efficiently than the state. Season pass and ticket rates are no bargain now so it's not as if our costs would be likely to increase. The regional economies would do as well or better if these mountains drew more skier visits.

[Spongeworthy]

Privatization, whether by sale or even lease to a private entity, is absolutely prohibited by the State Constitution.

[Snowballs]

Agreed. Except I would say completely privatize them. Get the State out of it. Put them on the taxrolls. Then the Gov't will make even more money. That will be a huge bonus for the local economy. It's a good chance it would be bigger boast to the local economy and the municipality's coffers than ORDA currently creates.

Some will say " But prices will go up and they won't have State dollars for any improvements. "

Yea well, there are dozens and dozens of area private ski resorts who do quite well without State aid. Across the Nation there are hundreds of ski resorts not receiving State aid and are doing very well without State aid.

NONE of these enjoy Gore's tax free status business model yet they still crank a profit.

I doubt it will ever happen though.

I wonder if we will see the return of the tax ski passes/tickets idea ?

EDIT - Spongeworthy may have found a stumbling block to privatization. I know they had to ammend the State Constitution to build Face and the Northway...not sure on Gore. There'ld still be the selling State land issue....is Gore on land that is prohibited from being sold ?

[Danzilla]

I think a private operator would be a double edged sword. Do you really think that a private operator if they were just leasing would have dumped the kind of money that ORDA / NYS has into Gore and Whiteface over the past 5-10 years?

I know the lifts are not all high speed quads, but there has been some serious investment and development. Snowmaking aside, I don't know any other mountain in the north east that has expanded terrain like Gore (or WF).

I commend Gore and WF management for getting the BR and lookout projects done. I think it was a great move to cut the ski bowl lift line and put the lower lift house in. Can you imagine how many years those projects would be on hold in the current economic environment? Probably another 5-10 years.

I wouldn't bet on a private operator opening any more of the mountain during midweek either unless there were the crowds to support it. Nobody is going to operate every lift unless the money is coming in to support it.

I think the biggest thing a private operator would do is market and promote the areas better. They would allocate more money to those activities and less to racing and skier development. This would also result in much bigger crowds - aka waiting in a lift line in VT for 20-30 minutes to get on a high speed quad.

I wish any of you heading to VT next year the best of luck. For midweek riding you are probably going to be happy. If you mostly ride on the weekends you'll be back.

[Spongeworthy]

EDIT - Spongeworthy may have found a stumbling block to privatization. I know they had to ammend the State Constitution to build Face and the Northway...not sure on Gore. There'ld still be the selling State land issue....is Gore on land that is prohibited from being sold ?

I posted this in Nov. '08:

It can't be sold OR leased. Gore is part of the Adirondack Park Forest Preserve. The State Constitution provides that such lands "shall be forever kept as wild forest lands. They shall not be leased, sold or exchanged, or be taken by any corporation, public or private." Orvlle Slutzky (Hunter Mountain) unsuccessfully sued the State when DEC transferred the authority to operate Gore to ORDA, claiming that it was a prohibited lease. The courts said that it wasn't a lease.


The court said it wasn't a lease because it considered ORDA to be acting as the state. If you care to read the court's opinion, the cite is Slutsky v. Cuomo, 114 AD2d 116, appeal dismissed 68 NY2d 663. There is NO wiggle room here. Gore simply cannot be operated by a private party without a constitutional amendment.

[Snowballs]

That pretty much seals it SW.

Slutsky vs Cuomo. hehehehe. History does repeat itself ! Remember Slutsky vs Client #9 ? hehehe.

In today's Post Star there's a guy named J.P. Moron. He's going to jail for dealing drugs. I guess he's properly named.

Also in the Post Star is an Editorial stating Albany is so far keeping the old spending levels AND adding an additional 3 Billion dollars in spending. Remember, it doesn't matter to these guys if they have the tax money, borrowed money or not.

Things could get really ugly here in NY. Be prepared to defend your mtn.

[AdironRider]

Whoa, learning lots here.

Given the precedent, it seems like it would be a tough sell to get a constitutional change to sell or lease the facilities. Think of the ramifications, how many other places would we lose as a result? The more I think about it, the more I like it the way it is. Besides, Gore/Whiteface might fetch 125 mill on a good day. I think Im aiming high. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

[TomCat]

They have managed to contract out the food operation without violating the constitution. Couldn't they do something similar for operating the whole mountain? I don't know, but it would sound possible. I do think a private operator would invest more in snowmaking. Just look at how the private mountains operate. If they don't make money they go out of business, They don't have the option to go to the state foe more funding.

While adult prices are gore are generally comparable to VT, youth passes are quite a bit cheaper. This would likely change under private operation.

As far as weekend liftlines in VT are concerned, I skied Stratton over a holiday weekend and never waited more than 5-7 minutes for a high speed chair. They can really move people up the hill. HOwever the trails were definitely much more crowded than at gore.

tom

[Spongeworthy]

They have managed to contract out the food operation without violating the constitution. Couldn't they do something similar for operating the whole mountain?

The law is settled. Our highest Court has ruled that only the State (and ORDA counts as the State) can operate a ski area at Gore and Whiteface.

Be careful with your ideas or we could end up with work release inmates (which is allowed as a State operation) running the cafeteria and the Tannery

[adkskier]

The law is only settled in so far as stating the fact that a constitutional amendment would be required for the state to lease out Gore or Whiteface. A constitutional amendment cannot happen quickly, but it can happen. Placing a constitutional amendment on the ballot requires passing legislation in two consecutive sessions of the legislature. Once this occurs, the decision is up to the voters of New York. There is a mechanism.